Dwarves - running game only, or add passing?

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:40 pm

Hi All,

I've started in a new league (OK, new to me) recently with a Dwarf team. 5 games in they're at 2-0-2 and have 5 players with skills.

Started with 2 Blitzers, 2 Slayers, 1 Runner and 6 Blockers. I've since added a second Blocker and an APO, and after my last game, added the second runner (more MA 6 players won't hurt me!).

My first runner skilled up and took block. I also have 2 blockers with guard, a blitzer with jump up (which I've already found to be quite handy!), and one with dodge (as I also find that I need to periodically dodge out to use blitzes against ball carriers).

The coach I played with this weekend suggested that I develop a Runner into a QB. He showed me a roster from a dwarf team of his with a runner that has (as added skills) pass, accurate, and strong arm.

I've read various playbooks on dwarves, and most of them say to not bother with developing a passer. However, given that he's a 6 3 3 8 player that starts with Sure Hands, what's the harm? Once he gets pass, he's as good as a human thrower (starting), but with Thick Skull (not a game breaker, but useful at times).

Is there any good reason not to develop one runner as a runner and one as a thrower?

Fire away! :)

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:57 pm

Passing with dwarfs can be fun but it almost certainly isnt optimal. You compare a human thrower with the dwarf runner which is fair but.... actually most people develop their human throwers into ball runners.

WilburS · Post by **WilburS** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:03 pm

Theres also the issue of who's going to catch it....

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:05 pm

lerchey wrote:
Is there any good reason not to develop one runner as a runner and one as a thrower?

It's not that you shouldn't develop a runner into a passer, but rather that you're better off in the beginning to make him a better runner (block and even Kick Off Return too) before bothering with the throwing skills.

Simply put, if you need to throw the ball, then you're probably in dire straits to begin with because you couldn't contain the game and play at a dwarf-pace. So the common wisdom is just to look after the basics first before you start freelancing with elf-style play

. Basically, the maxim for dwarf play is the less dice thrown, the better but you can start to mix it up a little once you've established a solid conventional game.

cyagen · Post by **cyagen** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:09 pm

Unless you get a +AG Blitzer or Runner, do not bother. Dwarf runners are much better for your team with defensive skills like Wrestle and Tackle.

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:18 pm

Thanks all.

I have a fairly solid running/bashing game going, though opponents have managed to beat me with really fast and dodgy players (an MA 9 human runner was really hard to stop, even deployed in depth!). While my line's tackle-all-over is pretty good at stopping dodges, it's not a full-blown show stopper. And against opposing AV 9 teams (Orcs, for example), it's harder to get the numerical advantage I get against softer foes. :)

All in all, I'm happy with the team and it's progress. I think that based on the recommendations, I'll plan to develop the second runner as a runner and see if any opportunities (AG 4 players, etc.) turn up to make me change my mind.

First game with 2 runners fielded is next weekend. No idea as to what kinds of teams I'll be playing as the league doesn't really schedule games, so much as have a running mass of pick-up games.

Thanks!

Vesto · Post by **Vesto** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:06 pm

Eleven games in our local league and only three passes with my skilled runner, another two fired due injuries. Two passes caught by unguarded troll slayer (MA5 really rocks

). No passing skills but Leader selected out of 5 skill rolls.

My playing style consists in bashing, fouling and walking, most of GFI rolls made my blockers.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:52 pm

HMP is the only Thrower-esque skill I would consider unless I got an +AG

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:52 pm

developing the 2nd runner as a passer is not a bad thing at all. Gives you options when the running game bogs down too much. Other teams pass with agility 3 just fine..dwarves can do it, just don't rely on passing..do the running game, but have the option to heave the ball--people might just be caught off guard.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:34 am

Vesto wrote:MA5 really rocks ).

A truer statement would be: "MA4 really sucks

."

Yeah, it's ok to throw sometimes if you have a TRR and are passing with a guy who can use the SPP, but I'd develop for defense unless I felt that I was out of the range of my competition (either a lot better or a lot worse). If you really stink, you need to build the offense or you'll get scored on, and if you have a good opportunity to build one or two offensive specialists, go right ahead.

But for my money, passing skills on a Runner are in #3 territory. One guy gets Block then Kickoff Return, and at that point starts thinking about Accurate or Pass (the other one goes for Block, then Fend, then Pro or Nerves, depending on what else I have). I also develop Blocker #5 with Grab: he always plays on offense, but only sees the field on defense if there's been an injury.

If you stumble upon an AG4 Runner, that changes everything. Follow with Pass, then Nerves or Accurate. But more important than any of that is that an AG4 Runner or Blitzer catches on a 2. So if you have a TRR, you have a very good shot at a completion with a Blocker. That's huge.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:00 am

Nerves of Steel and Dump Off on both runners is actually pretty fun. You can sometimes entice teams to come into the back of your cage and get beaten down for turns upon turns!

But Fend and Block are better choices, IMHO. I also love Kick Off Return and Leader early on (but eventually ditch leader... no real need for an extra re-roll long term.)

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:54 am

Block & Fend for me. Kick off return on one of them. Dodge on doubles. Passing skills can come later as you don't really have any viable receivers.

lerchey · Post by **lerchey** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:22 am

Just thought I'd provide an update on the team. After 8 games (4W, 2T, 2L) I have two Blockers with Guard, both runners have Block (one has 5 completions and one has 2), one Blitzer has Jump Up - which has been really awesome as I've not failed the +2 AG roll yet! - the other Blitzer has Dodge + a new skill from the last game (normal - I'm considering Stand Firm), and one Troll Slayer has Mighty Blow.

While only a couple of passes have been "necessary" (including one where the ball was in my end zone, I cleared a path for the runner, who ran in and picked it up, then used a GFI to get one space closer to a pack of Blockers on the LoS, threw a Long Pass - rolled a 6, which was caught by a Blocker - rolled a 5, who then, despite not having a chance of getting into the end zone even with GFIs, ran that way anyway 'cause it was fun!), all of them were easy SPPs - essentially hand off actions using a quick pass instead while I had TRRs available.

So, 8 games, won half of them, averaging 1 skill up per game. I'm not unhappy. But until/unless I get someone better at catching, I'll likely stay away from the passing skills. At least for a while. :)

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Dwarves - running game only, or add passing?

Dwarves - running game only, or add passing?

Re: Dwarves - running game only, or add passing?