ST 1 Gutterrunner viable?

Herostratos · Post by **Herostratos** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:55 pm

Hey folks,

we've just started a mini league with about 4-6 players and rookie teams. I won the first and second games 3:2 both but in the second game I suffered two bad casualties. One lino got MNG and -1 ST and one of my two gutters got the same.

The line up ATM is

Storm Vermin
Storm Vermin (1 skill still to choose - rolled a double 5, going for Claw I guess?)
Rat Ogre
Thrower
5 Linos
Gutter - Shadowing
Gutter - Normal skill to choose, -1 ST
2 RR, Apo

Not the smartest setup but that's what I've got painted ATM. I plan to buy Gutters until I have 4 from now on...

So, onto my question: Can that ST 1 Gutter still be useful, at least short-term? I won't be keeping him for long I guess but would you advise kicking him immediately and renting a guy for the next game? I've got 70.000 cash right now, so no new Gutter...

Any help appreciated! (And I will post pics soon incase that helps.

)

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:00 pm

Sack!

Also, don't take shadowing, unless as a 4th skill, after block, sidestep, fend. Even then diving tackle will more often win you games, than shadowing will..

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:10 pm

Here's my questions on a 1 St Gutter Runner:

Is there any skill, plus his Ag4 and speed, that would be better than a linerat with loner?

Can you keep him away from 3d blitzes when he has the ball, OR, is he useful as a mobile assist/distraction?

If the GR is a glowing target in the obsessed, maniacal eye of the opposing coach, he might have a dying use....

If not... sack 'im!

(I miss the days when you could retire players to assistant coaching and add 10k to TV)....

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:41 am

If he had a few more skills, I'd say keep him.

As he's a rookie, I'd dump him as soon as you can.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:26 am

A good reason to fire this GR is that he will get SPPs. The last thing you want is SPPs going to cripples.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:19 am

Smeborg wrote:A good reason to fire this GR is that he will get SPPs. The last thing you want is SPPs going to cripples.

I agree, he isn't anything special so get rid of him asap!

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:47 am

I agree with the others that firing him is the way to go.

I'm just thinking that playing with only one GR will be hard and if I had to choose between playing with only one GR or two with one of them ST1, I'd choose to play with two. Even with ST1 a GR is still useful due to high speed and AG4. He gives assists the same way as before.

I guess he's missing the next game so you don't have to decide yet, but you really do need at least two GR's. Having the thrower helps a bit. A skaven offence is generally easy, but it just stalls without Gutter Runners and without a solid offence a skaven team is in big trouble. Plus you need GR's to be able to capitalise on sacking the ball carrier in defence.

Concerning SPP's I'd of course try not to score with him but the situation can quickly turn to deciding between scoring at all. Winning a game comes first and only then I worry about getting SPP's on deserving targets.

Last, I'd take Claw on the Storm vermin, but only if you're facing lots of AV9 teams (and AV8 as well, but if most of your opponents are AV7 and AV8, then I wouldn't bother). Otherwise I'd take Dodge.

Herostratos · Post by **Herostratos** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:28 am

Thanks for your opinions guys.

Hopefully I'll earn 60K+ next game (I can hope, right??

) so that I can replace both the Gutter and the ST2 lino. Two strength decreases in one game can really hit a new team hard, huh... If I earn less, I'll replace the GR and play with a Journeyrat.

The next game's against Orcs who just lost a Blitzer, so that makes them a "softer" target with only 3 BOBs and 3 Blitzers.

My opponents are Dark Elves, 2x Orcs and maybe Necros and High Elves. So I guess the Claw could come in handy but Dodge might be the sounder choice... Not quite sure yet. I might have to model a Storm Vermin with Claws first, to aid my decision making process.

And you can't even make retired players assistants any more? That's a pity, was counting on that... But no big deal. (Will have to read up on that.)

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:59 am

St is a gutter runners least important attribute but it does demote him purely to ball running and adding assists. Think carefully whether the inducements/journeymen or the gutter runner are more valuable to you.

Herostratos · Post by **Herostratos** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:53 am

The most glaring problem I see is that even ST3 players can block him with 3D now. That and the fact that he's going to miss the next game (after which I'll hopefully be able to replace him) and he's only got one skill so far. So hopefully after the next 2 games I'll have a new Gutter with 2 TDs and a brand new skill under his belt.

And you're right. We're certainly not talking synchronised underwater horse snaffling here.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:07 am

Sure hands might work well for making daring grabs of loose balls.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:41 pm

If I had to keep him, I'd give him leap and use him late in the turn as a decoy or mobile assist. I'd also be sure to keep him out of tackle zones- make your opponent use a blitz on him!

But sacking him is the best longterm... but in 4-6 games, he might be able to make an impact as a third or 4th runner. Short leagues are weird, if you roll poor money, you can be hosed.

grampyseer · Post by **grampyseer** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:15 pm

I had a 3 skilled, strength 1 gutter for a while. He was just fine for the most part, but you start to notice that str 1 every now and then when you want to make a backfield play for the other teams thrower.

I think another thread made this point about niggling injuries. They're not an issue until they finally do the model in.

I think it's the same with str 1. It will eventually kill him....but you don't need to replace him.

...except in the OP's case, where he's green, and readily replaceable.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:09 am

i'd replace him as soon as you can (i.e have 4 gutter runners) but he's worth more than a journeyman lino and a bit of inducements. he will get lots of attention so taking it away from other more valuable players and you need as many scoring threats on the field as possible, as without ag4 gutter runners it's easy to grind down on a skaven team.

Harry Buddha Palm · Post by **Harry Buddha Palm** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:47 pm

Like the OP, I've got a gutter runner that just got hit by -1 st. I would give him the boot in a heartbeat except that he already has block and +1 ag, so I'm not so sure. I have just enough money to replace him and it would also lower my TV to do so. Still, he's a 5 ag blodger. He can still do his job and do it well. I can use him for ball retrieval and handoff or pass to someone else to score when I can. I could also use him as a distraction as I'm sure most coaches will divert much attention into taking him out. I'm sure he's going to die some day anyway, so I can put him to good use until then. It would just suck if he got an MVP, though. I'm on the fence, but I'm leaning towards replacing him. What do you think?