Talk Fantasy Football

I believe most coaches see in the one die block only the fifty fifty chance of suffering a turnover or knocking the opponent down, and consider it as an awful risk.

I'm seeing a benefit in it, though.

Blood Bowl has several goals in my opinion. One is to control the opponent. The only way to achive this is to use Tackle Zones and Blocks. Tackle Zones is obviously the -1 modification and causing dodge rolls, and the benefit of Blocks is that prone players are limited in their actions and lose three points of their MA.
To take one die blocks is a way to checkmate your opponent.

Annother goal in Blood Bowl is to force the opponent into turnovers. This is achieved by forcing the coach to take so many rolls until one fails.
To take one die blocks is therefore also a way to play into your opponent hands.

Last, a lack of speed can only be overcome by outnumbering the opponent. Which means to injure them. I believe that injuries are not caused by strength but only by the number of armour rolls made. The chances with a one die block, and both players having no skills, are 33% to suffer a turnover, 33% to push back and 50% to knock the opponent over. So the chances are in your favour WHEN! you can take the turnover.

So all in all to take those one die blocks is a benefit, as it is always better to be the attacker than the defender (a difference of causing 3 armour rolls out of six, to causing only 2 out of 6), especially as being your call, it means to have the option to pick time, place and situation, means the possibility to secure it.

In the best of cases this can result into an one-sided thrashing that eventually sweeps the other team of the pitch.
In the worst of cases you'll lose so many blocks that they do the same with you.
Like Khorne's Killers, they win by lots or lose by lots.
But when you play like a daredevil, take blocks your opponent doesn't dare and secure them, while constantly hitting them before they hit you, a bit of luck perhaps, too, I saw average teams beat AV 9 teams senseless, just by being ferociously relentless.

Least our league, every1 uses 1die blocks at the endof turn, if there's rerolls, and they got block, and the possible turnover is not crucial for winning..

This means we take about 50-70% of the 1dbs that we get..

UncleBob wrote:So the chances are in your favour WHEN! you can take the turnover.

... and WHEN you got more or the same AV as your opponent!

A "both down" is worse for the blocking player even at end of turn, barring injury. Having a player down on your turn puts him down for an entire opposing turn.

That said, if you have Block then a 1d block is like a 2+ roll, and if you don't it's a 3+, assuming a push will help.

Still, a healthy respect for the risks of 1d blocks is critical to maintaining long-term survival in a league, and the skill of engineering 2d blocks is one of the most important space-management games in BB. So I think that "don't make 1d blocks" is an understandable misstatement of the better principles "make 2d blocks if you can," and "exercise caution with 1d rolls, including blocks."

I think a more debatable matter is the used of defenders choice blocks. I'm still a rookie coach, however I'm starting to use them more and more, especially when I've got a re-roll.

Generally the situation goes something like this. I do everything else in my turn, and now I've got a lone Norse lineman and some big nasty S4/5/6 nasty face to face.

Now, obviously if having that lineman standing will prevent a blitz on my ball carrier, he's just going to have to suck it up. And I'd certainly rather have arranged things for a nice 1D or 2D block. But if there aren't tactical issuess like that, it seems to me the cost/benifit breaks down something like this (if the big guys doesn't have block or dodge)


Stand there: safe on my turn, but will take a 2D block on their turn, which has a 5 in 9 chance of taking my guy down (1 in 9 of them taking themselves down, or 1 in 81 after TRR).

Dodge away 1/3 chance of taking a nosedive (1/9 after TRR)

Make the block. 11/36 chance of seeing a skull (9.3% chance after TRR). 1 in 4 chance that I take them down outright(better if TRR is used if there is a skull). Remaineder is a push, which has my guy safe on the next turn (likely the blitz will be on something more tactically significant).

So in the end I'm inclined to take the block option. Do you think that's wrong?

With MA6 there is a possibility the lineman might be able to contribute if they dodge away. However, if I don't absolutly need them, I'm loath to tempt nuffle with a 3+ action early in a turn. Dodging away at the end of the turn doesn't usually offer that great of benifit because they can't help with an assist, and I've likely positioned the other players to mitigate for them not making it, especially if I already used a TRR this turn.

I'd like to make another point.

Given flair teams shouldn't block, but dodge. And a 2 dice block is always better. But I looked entirely on the situation where only a 1 die block is possible and if you should take it? I say yes, even, actually, especialy if the opponent has block and your player hasn't.
This doesn't makes sense when you look at the chance that one out of three of those blocks will be a turnover, but it does when you take a look at the alternatives.

Example:
You've got a Human Lineman (ST: 3, AG: 3 and no skills) in contact with a Dwarf Blocker (ST: 3 and Block).
Now your player has three options: First do nothing and remain in contact, this will lead to the Dwarf blocking your player. The Dwarf has a 50% to pull you down and only a 16% to go down himself. That Dwarf has a good reason to take that block.
Second your player might dodge on a 3+, that includes a 33% chance to cause a Turnover.
And third you can take the block, knock the Dwarf over in 33% of all times and have a 33% chance to cause a Turnover.
Comparing all this the block is the best option, doing nothing the worst. It actually means to reduce a 50% chance of getting down to a 33% chance. Being the attacker is always better, especially if your opponent has block and your player hasn't.

Exceptions
If the opponent has Block and Dodge, the option to block is not so good.
If your player needs to reposition, the dodge is better, if he has to move, he has to. If he doesn't has to move though, but only needs to get out of contact, the block is again better, as not following up does the same, turnover chances are the same, plus there is the chance of knocking the opponent over.
If you expect the opponent to dodge in his turn, because he needs to reposition himself, doing nothing and forcing him to dodge is better, of course.
Last, if both coaches doesn't dare to block and the two lineman are neutralizing each other, you have to decide to keep it like that or take the risk.

Bottom line, the one die block doesn't look good, but compared to the alternatives it seems to be the best you can do, especially when your opponent has block, while your player hasn't.
If you want to keep your players alive, avoid contact, but when you are in contact, then, you can't avoid the block anyway, and if that's so, taking the block yourself is the best option.

There is a difference when the opponent has Mighty Blow, the chance to hit the turf are always the same. But to get beaten up by the turf is more forgiving than getting it from the Mighty Blow player.

I don't think you should factor rerolls into the equation when doing end of the turn blocks. Having extra rerolls don't happen too often and even if I have a reroll for every turn left on the half, I'd rather have an extra for a possible riot, Blitz! or something.

If you have a lineman tying a big guy up, then I don't think you should generally take a -2d block as tying up big guys is one of main functions of linemen in general. If you fall down, then the big guy is free to reposition, something you don't generally want. Furthermore, most big guys have at least a 1 in 6 chance of failing to make the block in the first place. Furthermore, you should at least have Block or Wrestle to have better chances of actually taking the big guy down too.

Positioning trumps all.

1D blocks definately have their uses but any attritional advantage is tiny compared to the positional advantages available.

Its never a straightforward player for player tradeoff anyway... armour values, time in the game, skills on the players, and number of reserves are all more important to your attitude. For example: if I have 15 players available and you have 11 then it makes sense for me to adopt a more aggressive "throw whatever free shots you can, however unlikely" policy. When in the opposite situation you're likely to be adopting a much more cautious attitude.

The moment a Dwarf Blocker moved into contact with your player, the option to risk or risk not an armour value roll is no option anymore. It's going to be one, either way and I say block the Dwarf, before he blocks you. (see example above)

2 dice blocks with defenders choice
I wouldn't take them in spite they look good when your player has Block and the Big Guy doesn't. 2 dice block with defenders choice while your player has Block is a 30% chance to go down, to dodge away it's a 33% chance to go down, and getting blocked by the Big Guy next turn is even worse. But the Big Guy still has Mighty Blow. And because of that I would take the dodge unless you have to mark the Big Guy and screening is no option.

And I wouldn't use team re-rolls on those end of turn one die blocks, but rather take the turnover. It's better to pay mind to pick those blocks carefully, means making sure that a failed block doesn't open too many options for the opponent coach.

Positioning trumps all? No doubt about it! To have the right player at the right time at the right spot - that's Blood Bowl, that's coaching.

The only situation I can think of in which not taking those one die blocks makes sense, is when you're absoultely certain that the opponent coach won't take the block option in his turn.
Based of course on the fact that dodging and blocking is equally risky.

I'd have said it's more about tying up players and defending positions.

I may not take 1 d blocks when a negative result will free up an opponent to do something important when by just standing there I will tie the player up in just the block.

Of course this depends on skills and TRR availability plus the overall situation.

More than general stances I think certain teams need to go in with different mindsets.

While sometimes there could be none or a great amount, usally there seems to be a small positional advantage to tying up a big guy with one of your regular guys. Because a big guy can tie up more than just one.

For an Orc lineman that may make it worth it to take the hit, as they can weather mighty blows turn after turn.

I feel my Norse lack that luxury due to AV7. And so the best choice in general is to throw the block. I feel it may be worthwhile to have more re-rolls for the purpose of throwing larger numbers of 1D and even 02d blocks, especially on newer teams. Taking advantage of the initially very good and economical Norse linemen to afford them (which also provides good long term gold economy).

Do those more experienced agree?

I don't often encounter situations where it's inadvisable not to throw blocks with a Norse team.

I have to agree that there are plenty of times when making a 1 die block makes perfectly good sense. When I started playing and was really, really bad at knowing how to handle a team (not that I'm great now, but I do seem to be capable of learning) I would only make 1 die blocks if my player had Block. Now I find lots of times when a 1 die block is very advantageous.

Last night I had a pick up game with a buddy. He had Chaos Dwarves and I ran my turtle team (like lizard men, but up the armor and reduce the speed to about nothing, and the sauri equivalents can throw the smaller turtles, but the small turtles don't start with dodge). Anyway, he had set up a nice little cage on the sideline.
H - Hobgoblin
Hb - Hobgoblin with ball
B - Bull centaur
T - small turtle (happened to have +1 ST - ST 3 - and dodge!)
t - small turtle

He never thought that I'd dodge T between the two bull centaurs on a blitz for a 1 die block shot at his carrier. I did. Got a both down result and took it happily. The ball dropped into the crowd and landed where I had a better shot at getting control. In that situation I'd have taken a 2 die against.

The point is that while there are plenty of statistics showing that a 1 die block is not always super-dangerous, part of the reality is that dice are involved (who hasn't rolled a double skulls?), but if the situation shows that there is more to be gained by a successful 1 die block than there is danger in failing the attempt, then it's well worth doing.