TV125 Orc team

[Welshy]

Please see my Orc roster for a local tournaments here in CHCH, NZ C&C sought. Any notes on play style (i.e. how best to play with the skills) as well as alternative skills welcome.

It's a TV 125 Tournament where players can gain a single normal (i.e. non-double) skill at the outset. This is a reserection tourney, so no additional skills or injuries as the event rolls on.

Black Orc Block
Black Orc Block
Black Orc Block
Black Orc Block
Blitzer Tackle
Blitzer Tackle
Blitzer Guard
Blitzer Guard
Thrower Leader
Thrower
Line
Line

3 ReRolls

[DoubleSkulls]

You only need one thrower IMO. So swap the 2nd for another line orc and get an additional skill.

I'd give all the BOBs guard instead of Block, give two of the Blitzers mighty blow and swap one of the tackles for frenzy.

The spare skill would either be Block on the thrower or skill up a line orc with either wrestle, kick or dirty player.

That said at 125 I'd probably drop to 11 players to take the Troll. So drop 2 line orcs and the spare skill. Maybe drop a reroll to give the Troll guard and then wrestle on the line orc with 20k spare (1CL, 1AC) or forget the skill for the line orc and take a goblin as a 12th man (IMO nice threat for the one turner and if you run up against teams light on block or tackle then he might be useful instead of the line orc or thrower).

[mattgslater]

Troll Guard
BOB Block x2
BOB Stand Firm x2
Blitzer Guard x2
Blitzer Tackle x2
Thrower Leader
Thrower Block
2x TRR, 2x FF/AC/CL

Troll Guard
BOB Block x2
BOB Stand Firm x2
Blitzer Guard x2
Blitzer Tackle x2
Thrower Leader
Lineman
Goblin
2x TRR

[Welshy]

Thanks guys. Your help is appreciated, I too considered a GUARD Troll, but got a bit 'shy' due to their eternally frustrating STUPID skill. I'm planning on having a couple of 'practice games' and see how the set-ups play, so I'll let you know my findings... To Troll or not to Troll!

I would like some clarity on 'how' to play the rosters you proposed, especially the Black Orcs. My experievnce is that their reliability is greatly enhanced by BLOCK, combined their high strength and their a force to be reconned with, even GUARD-heavy Dwarf sides struggle. This is coutered by both or your proposals to some extent with GUARD and STAND FIRM on Black Orcs instead. I cna only presume that you would use them in a different way than I am used to. Can you please confirm? My iniitla thoughts are as follows:

Ian: With all the Guard you are virtually guarenteeing 2DBlocks in your favour (and 'up hill' blocks for your opponent) so I'm assuming that the Black Orcs are to be used passively in the midst of the mele lending assists to the Blitzers et al. minimising the amount of blocking themselves.

Matt: I presume that the STAND FIRM Black Orcs are on the Wing? The rest seems straightforward enough.

Thanks for your hlep guys, I'll be keen to hear your responses.

[mattgslater]

Actually, I tend to use Stand Firm over Block on the ends, with Block guys midfield. Even a prone or stunned BOB can hose up the interior and prevent 2d blocks on the Troll. I like Blitzers on the wings, and Blitzers with Guard on the flanks. I'm leery of using MA4 players outside the hashmarks, especially on defense.

The truth is that the difference between Block, Guard and Stand Firm on those two BOBs is largely academic. On defense, Stand Firm is better against bash and Block is better against agility. On offense, Guard is better against bash and Stand Firm is better against agility. Broadly speaking, Guard and Block are A skills, while Stand Firm is sort of a B+. Total judgment call.

[DoubleSkulls]

Basically I'd have a wall of Troll & BOBs with the blitzers doing most of the hitting and controlling the flanks. The "wall" then generally pushes your opponent down one side - and then you squash them against the sideline.

[Craigtw]

I faced a team like this where the player had given all the black orcs and all the blitzers Guard. It ws tough to deal with I tell ya! And I was playing Chaos Dwarves where all six of my CDs had Guard too!

[mattgslater]

Guard vs. Guard turns it into a contest of who has more ST+Guard. That's not the only way to play, but if that's the way both teams are playing the advantage will go to the Orcs every time.

[Joemanji]

I don't think you can go into a TV125 tournament with 11 players. Even 12 is pushing it. Skills are tempting but I'd rather have 11 players on the pitch than extra skills ... Orcs don't have the speed to cope with starting a drive with 8 players.

I'd take

Troll
4 BOBs - 4 Block and/or Guard
4 Blitzers - Guard, Frenzy, Tackle
Thrower - Leader
3 Linemen
2 Rerolls

13 players and you still get plenty of skills to play with.

[DoubleSkulls]

I won a tournament in a similar format with 12 players. I think 13 is overkill.

[mattgslater]

If your Orcs go down 3 guys and you don't get them first, you ain't gonna win. It doesn't matter how many guys are in your reserve bin. You been beat.

Better to have two more skills on the field (and that much less chance of getting outnumbered) than to have a Goblin in the box.

[Joemanji]

If your Orcs go down 3 guys and you don't get them first, you ain't gonna win. It doesn't matter how many guys are in your reserve bin. You been beat.

That's complete nonsense. Balderdash. You can lose players at any point in a game. Random blocks when a drive has been decided, dead turns. Casualties don't have to seriously affect the drive in which they occur. But they sure as heck can affect the subsequent drives. The opposing team can have a deeper bench than you, so if you 'get them' equally then the number of players you lose yourself is key. If you lose 3 men and so does your opponent, you could be 9 v 11 against Norse/Humans and suddenly in trouble. I have played Orcs in several tournaments and lost 3/4/5 players on plenty of occasions.

AV9 is not invulnerable. In my last tournament game with Dwarfs I took 6 casualties for example. I remember on recent game where Lycos caused ELEVEN casualties against Dwarfs.

[mattgslater]

Guilty of exaggeration, as charged. How about this? You take more damage if you don't have enough skills on the pitch. And with a properly-developed Orc team, you will seldom take heavy damage if you are playing well.

[DoubleSkulls]

A reserve is risk mitigation against almost inevitable cas/ko. However the cost of the mitigation strategy is to reduce the effectiveness of the team on the pitch and hence (ironically) increase the chances of getting players off.

So you have to look at the risk/reward ratio. I'd think 11 is a high risk approach - 12 middle ground and 13 low risk. So with a low risk approach you are actually making it more likely you'll get a middle of the road result, where as with 11 you are more likely to get an extreme result.

That makes me think 11 is a better choice for anyone except the very best players if you want to win since you need to be lucky to win a tournament and taking 11 maximises the benefit of luck. However the downside is that if you aren't lucky you'll probably do a lot worse than you would with 12 or 13 in the team.

[Joemanji]

Interesting analysis. I always consider a deep bench as mitigation against your opponent's luck. A huge number of games are won/lost on two factors IMO: attrition and positional mistakes. If you mitigate against the former and back yourself as a good coach to avoid the latter, you should be looking to win your games unless truely outplayed or properly diced. I have lost and (particularly) drawn countless game simply through running out of players.