Human development and strategy

[Toad]

I am playing Humans in a League with various opposing teams.
My current roster has 4 Blitzers with Guard, 1 Thrower with Accurate and Strong Arm, 1 Receiver with Fend, 1 Ogre that is still Level 1 and 6 Linemen.

I have read some strategy guides regarding Humans, and understand why they are bashy against Agility teams and use a passing game against bashy teams. I'm having issues against Humans though ... Assuming I am facing a roster close to mine, should I play the ball or bash? (in a vacuum of course). If I get the first offense, should I field my Thrower and Receiver, or should I keep them out? I find the Human matchup to be very hard, I never seem to make the proper core strategical choices.

A couple more questions ...

. Should I invest into a 14th player already? I have around 150K in reserve. TV is about 1600, 4 RR, Apo.

. Jump Up or Sure Feet on my next Receiver upgrade, assuming he lives long enough?

. I tend to pick Block as first choice on my Linemen unless I get stat increase or Dodge access. Are there any other development options? I did the same for my Chaos Beastmen. It's efficient, but somewhat boring. I have found OK generic options (Block, Tackle, Dodge...) but have problem picking skills that are not spammed on all players such as Sneaky Git, Dirty Player or others

. Why would a Human coach ever invest into 4 Receivers? 2 Throwers is an option, but 4 Receivers seems very pushing. ST2 is not good and they are pretty pricy for what they bring to the team. I have an AG 4 Lineman and even considered firing my lone Receiver.

. Against Dark Elves, a light bashy team with AG4, how should I play?

Thanks in advance!

[voyagers_uk]

the use of the term "level one" makes me suspect a PC game league

if this is true or not it doesn't matter really, some skills seem to work slightly differently

Block as a first lineman skill is ok, wrestle would also work.
You need to get MB on your blitzers or maybe 2 MB and 2 Tackle.

against Human opposition, I think a lot depends upon the first turn. if you can get a number advantage go bashy, otherwise play keep away and run the ball in for teh score.

[Grumbledook]

Against humans I wouldn't set out with anything specific in mind but to adapt to what happens on the pitch. Pretty much the same way I play them against any race.

If you haven't seen it then read the guides at http://bbtactics.com/strategy/players/human-players/

I like having 4 Catchers as well, human players are fairly cheap and skill heavy.

[Tim]

On the receivers:
Block would be the obvious skill for the one you have to provide protection and keep him standing.

In general i think many coaches undervalue the human catchers because of the ST2/AG3 combo. While it's true that this stat line causes some problems, they are still good players with a very moderate price tag. They come with dodge/catch, which moves them near an AG4 player without these skills (or a team RR access) in terms of reliability from the first game on. And, more importantly, they add the speed to the team that you need to outrun the slow, strong teams like Orcs and Dwarf. They add the mobile assists to gain advantage of numbers on one side of the pitch, which is vital to overcome the strength disadvantage of the team. And they are the only position with Agility access on the team. They also pass quite well, as the superior movement often gives them a range band advantage over the thrower.

While 4 catchers might be a bit over the top, you could utilize them well through specialisation. Make defensive catchers with skills like wrestle or block, sidestep, diving tackle, tackle, passblock, dauntless to stop opponents receivers. Offensive catchers are very good with block, diving catch (esp. in LRB6), sidestep, fend, sure feet or sure hands and nerves of steel on doubles. Catchers also make good foulers due to the manouverability, modest price, protection by dodge skill and the access to sneaky git/dirty player without a double. A catcher with a movement upgrade makes a good one-turner with sprint/surefeet (only 1 chainpush square or quick snap needed). AG+ and ST+ turns the catcher into an awesome player anyway (but you can only get it if you have catchers on the roster).

My current human team i started with 1 Ogre, 4 blitzers, 2 catchers and 4 linemen, 3 RR, Apothecary and 1 FF and it works quite well up to now. Purely going for the fast running game, no throwers. Within 2 games, both wins, both catchers skilled up. The Ogre helps alot to play or counter the bashing game vs. most teams in the beginning. After the 2nd game i bought a thrower as my 12th player.

[mattgslater]

Having at least 2 Catchers is great, as they let you throw with your linemen so you can get them stuff like Block and Kick.

[Welshy]

You've already picked on the Humans needing to play 'the opposite' style to to opponents... this obviously works best with teams with a vert defined play style i.e. Elves or Dwarves. Against more flexible teams such as Humans (and even Skaven, Dark or High-elves) their less 'pure' play styles makes your decision less clear cut. My recommendation:

At the start of EACH TURN you need to ask "Agile or strength?". This means that you are still playing to the weaknesses of the opponents but on a turn-by-turn basis. Like-wise the KO set-up and players choice needs to fulfil this 'highly versatile' role.

I hope this general statement helps.

[Toad]

Thanks for the replies already, it helps. I've also read the BBTactics guide, that website is quite awesome.

The league will be a real life league, though most of the players - myself included - have started RL Blood Bowl after the PC game, so we tend to use PC based expressions such as Levels. I actually don't know how one would usually call a player that took 2 skills, for example. Veteran, as in the LRB?

I went for a second Catcher yesterday, which I plan to use as a mobile fouler. It should not be too hard to get it to 16SPP and give it Sneaky Git and Dirty Player. Once he gets there, he won't be receiving any more SPP or act as a Catcher, or maybe only an emergency target for Dump-Offs.

Aside from that I am slowly turning my Blitzers into Guard Mighty Blow players, pretty efficient. Oh, and my Ogre got lucky and rolled a Double ^^

Regarding the Wrestle comment, I'm not experienced enough to truly understand why I should pick this over Block on my players. It seems pretty good against low MA players due to the -3 stand up penalty, but against Agile teams I'd rather have Block to keep my players on their feet. Who should I give Wrestle to? Should I mix Wrestle and Block amongst my players, or just specialize a few guys into Wrestlers picking Jump Up next?

Last but not least ... I have 4 RR at the moment, and I am quite comfortable with that. I have money for a 5th RR, while keeping spare gold to cover casualties if needed. A 5th RR is obviously good to have but I fear it would push my TV too high this early. What's a good amount of RR to buy? Should I get to 8 ASAP, or aim for a lower amount?

[Ullis]

The league will be a real life league, though most of the players - myself included - have started RL Blood Bowl after the PC game, so we tend to use PC based expressions such as Levels. I actually don't know how one would usually call a player that took 2 skills, for example. Veteran, as in the LRB?

I went for a second Catcher yesterday, which I plan to use as a mobile fouler. It should not be too hard to get it to 16SPP and give it Sneaky Git and Dirty Player. Once he gets there, he won't be receiving any more SPP or act as a Catcher, or maybe only an emergency target for Dump-Offs.

Regarding the Wrestle comment, I'm not experienced enough to truly understand why I should pick this over Block on my players. It seems pretty good against low MA players due to the -3 stand up penalty, but against Agile teams I'd rather have Block to keep my players on their feet. Who should I give Wrestle to? Should I mix Wrestle and Block amongst my players, or just specialize a few guys into Wrestlers picking Jump Up next?

Last but not least ... I have 4 RR at the moment, and I am quite comfortable with that. I have money for a 5th RR, while keeping spare gold to cover casualties if needed. A 5th RR is obviously good to have but I fear it would push my TV too high this early. What's a good amount of RR to buy? Should I get to 8 ASAP, or aim for a lower amount?

First of all, most times players are spoken with reference to the skills they have. Knowing that someone has two skills doesn't really contain any relevant information. So, a catcher with Dirty Player and Sneaky git would be referred to as exactly that.

I do like your idea of a catcher as a fouler. He'll be worth 110k TV which is quite high but he'll still work in the catcher role as well.

The advantage of Wrestle is that you can bring down players with Block. Against a player without Block you would of course rather have Block yourself, but there are many occasions where getting a player prone is the main aim of blocking him. The most obvious example being a ball carrier. Others are more situational and harder to plan for, such as an opposing player with Guard or something. This is still the reason that a dedicated ball sacker should have Wrestle. Hitting a ball carrier often happens with 1 die or even -2 dice and Wrestle jacks up the odds quite a lot in the case of the ball carrier having Block. A catcher works in this role despite his ST2 as having the mobility and speed to reach a ball carrier is often the most important attribute.

Last, regarding the RR's. Aim for the number that you feel comfortable with yourself. If 4 seems to be enough, then don't bother buying more. If you're constantly ending halves wishing you'd have more rerolls, then buy another. Most teams and coaches manage fine with 4. Giving a thrower Leader is another option (and cheaper TV-wise as well), but I think there's lots of better other skills for human throwers than Leader.

[Toad]

Some more words here ...

My team is going fine, I have a steady 15 players including 1 Thrower, 2 Catcher, 4 Blitzers and the Ogre, others being Linemen. After playing monodimensional teams for a while (Chaos, Dwarves and Elves) I really like the versatility Humans offer, despite their average numbers.

The Fouler-Catcher experiment is going on pretty well. This Catcher is currently sitting on 13 SPP with Sneaky Git and is doing his job. He is one of the main enemy target, so I doubt he'll live long with his AV7 and only Dodge as protection. My other Catcher is has Block and Fend, and I am much more confident in his ability to survive for a couple more games ...

The main issue I have right now with the team are my Blitzers. They racked tons of SPP thanks to MB (+Guard) without suffering injuries, and are pushing my team TV to the roof. One of them rolled a Double for Dodge, an other one +AG. I'm not really sure I want them to get more skills unless they can get Dodge, and the way I read LRB5 picking skills is mandatory. Is it worth it to have 4 highly skilled players in a team with mostly average players (most of my linemen only have Block) ? I avoid the Blitzers for TD already, but still ... MB gets them here.

[besters]

Don't underestimate dodge as protection, it is one of the main pluses for the Amazon team and can significantly reduce the number of AV rolls you are facing, particularly where you are not facing a lot of tackle.

[mattgslater]

@Toad: For players with two skill access categories*, there is always a skill worth its weight in inducement value. Always. Got Guard+MB on all 4? Start filling out the toolbox. Got 2x Tackle, 2-4x Stand Firm, 1x Frenzy, 1x Grab, 1x Juggernaut, and still don't know what to do? Then take Pro. If you didn't want to skill, you should have thought of that before you took Mighty Blow. Sorry, it's just annoying to hear people gripe about success like it was a problem.

* One skill category means there's always a good first two or three skills, but you might hit a diminishing returns point. The extreme exception is Snotlings, whose individual TV+ is equal to just one skill, and who begin with the two best skills in their only access category. Then you can start talking about getting diminishing returns at 16SPP. But that's the only one.

[Toad]

Oh I'm not really griping about success here, I'm actually fairly happy when my Blitzers CAS opponents. Nevertheless, I'm mainly a PC game player (mostly due to time availability for RL league) and in the PC game it is pretty easy to distribute SPP evenly amongst all players, so everyone gets similar skills availability.

I'm not experienced with RL leagues where CAS frequency is higher (PC hardly fouls), and what worries me is ending with an unbalanced team with a few experienced players and a core of newbies. I don't know if that is a bad thing TBH, it's due to my lack of practical RL game conditions. Basically, my Blitzers have Guard, Mighty Blow and Dodge/Tackle/Frenzy, my Thrower has 3 skills too, while my Linemen have 0 or Block.

[mattgslater]

Throw with Linemen. Set Linemen up to score on offense. Leave a couple Throwers/Catchers on the bench on defense, so if you can take away you have a Lineman in position to score.

[Toad]

I tend to do this already, at least when I can afford the loss of speed and accuracy.

On defense I do not use my true Catcher or my Thrower. I just field my Sneaky Dirty Catcher and use a +AG Lineman if I need to carry the ball. That guy got +AG as his first and only skill, so I can score with him all times for now, and he makes a decent Quick Passer if needed.

On offense, I only field the Catcher when I have to go for a 2TTD, otherwise he is on the bench. Thrower is playing, since he is my only player with Sure Hands for now. I should definitely get Sure Hands on a Lineman for running games against mobile teams. That's on my to-do list.

Anyways... I guess I should simply stop worrying about having a TV gap between my positional players and my Linemen

[stashman]

I should definitely get Sure Hands on a Lineman for running games against mobile teams. That's on my to-do list.

NO and no!

Buy another Thrower (only 20K more than a lineman in cost and already got Sure Hands and Pass). Then build him as a runner. On double choose Dodge instead of strong arm. See it as a lineman with pass skill and opprtunity to get Leader.