Skaven vs lizardmen 160+

[Porkus_Maximus]

This is one particular match-up as skaven that I have absolutely NO idea what to do in. It feels like Lizards have every base covered, whereas I'm grasping at straws to exploit any kind of weakness in the lizards lineup. Here are my current problems.

Obviously I am not going to be throwing many, if any blocks against a team that is primarily loaded up with ST4/AV9 players players with strength access.

My 1 blitz per turn is going to be aimed at any skink that I can hit, but a player with good positioning will make that difficult. I find that my stormvermin are the first players my opponents go after, at the very least marking them and forcing me to attempt 3+ dodge rolls if I want to use them.

Most lizardmen seem to take diving tackle as a first skill choice on skinks, which instantly locks down my offence. Assuming I am running 3-4 GRs on offence that leaves 1 skink per GR, if I'm only running 2-3 then they can sometimes double up.

Stalling their offence does not seem very effective because a skink only needs to be 3 squares forward to be in scoring range.

Running a team with a Rat Ogre seems to be problematic for this match up. He's extremely easy to block down for the lizards and his impact against AV9 is minimal. Complete waste of space.

Kicking deep seems to be more effective than kicking shallow, am I doing the right thing by kicking deep?

Biggest weakness I see is: No sure hands without doubles, so the team is vulnerable to strip ball (of which I currently have none due to recent player deaths, need to skill up replacements ASAP).

QUESTION 1: How should I handle my offence? At the moment my strategy would be best described as "Run around like a headless chicken and hope my opponent rolls lots of 1s". If I move GRs forward, diving tackle skinks will pounce on them. If I try and play patiently and advantage slowly, the skinks pounce on them anyway and I end up getting manhandled by all the saurus. This is when I feel most powerless, and seem to be hanging on by the grace of Nuffle alone.

Question 2: How should I handle my defence? At the moment my strategy would be best described as "Leap towards their ball carrier, cross my fingers and pray I don't roll a skull." I feel more confident on defence because I at least see an option available to me, even if it isn't always an effective one. Should I fail, I assume the foetal position and pray that I still have a team left by the end of the drive.

My team currently stands as;

2 X GR with block/sidestep
1 X GR with wrestle/two heads
1 X GR with +MA/sprint
1X SV with guard
1X SV with guard/mighty blow
1X RO with guard/stand firm
1X TH with accurate
1X LR with kick
5X LR with nothing

Am I missing something obvious?

[Piousman]

Do you get any inducements?

Not much experience with either Lizard or Rats, but my first thought is: can you not block/blitz the skinks? They should be no better than your GRs? They are still AV7 and S2. You should be able to remove/push relatively easily.

Maybe if you run the GR's in pairs, one can block te skink (maybe 1D block), the other can run with the ball.

The other thought: Foul your heart out. Preferably his key players. With your move you should be able to surround at least 1-2 players to get excessive armour breakage.

Piousman

[Blammaham]

Your Rat Ogre isn't a waste of space, his tail is good for a few turn overs a game(or at least a few tence moments) against a tean that will run from him if they have no choice. The key to hurting the skinks is to use your SV with MB to blitz every turn you can onto a skink, how you keep Sauruses off of him is up to you but remember BT only works once a turn so protect the SV with linos knowing that is likly the one player your opponent will be worried about.S.

[Funksultan]

One of the keys to remember in this matchup is your obvious str superiority and the mobility of your skaven.

When my Skaven were in this situation, I stormed the skinks. Not a single blitz a turn, but flooding the skaven into the backfield (linerats as well) and marking as many skinks as possible with a Str3 skaven.

This gives them the option of making a lot of 3+ dodges to get free, or having to man up 3 skinks to each rat for the customary 2-die block. Both of these options should put a smile on your face. Their rerolls will start to dwindle, and you should keep that pressure on, while trying your best to avoid the lizardmen themselves. They are a quick scoring team, just like you are, but if you have the ball securely, don't be afraid to depart from your usual "quick score" style to hunt skinks.

When enough skinks are gone, you win.

Looking at your team, the biggest problem you'll have is no LR with block/wrestle. If his lizards are developed, they might reduce your numbers a bit too quickly. Also, if you're flush with rerolls for some reason, don't hesitate to try some 3+ dodges to move away from lizards that are geared for destruction.

Good luck, and hunt those skinks aggressively!

[TuernRedvenom]

It really depends how the saurus are skilled. If they have no break tackle man marking at money time is a good idea. If they even have no block man marking all the time is a good idea.
When they have some break tackle you're in for a very tough matchup, try to let him burn his rr asap to limit his manouvability.
Obviously, always blitz the skinks. Use your gutters for getting at those hidden skinks (you have block on them I suppose).
Kick deep, then they rely on handing off to the "middle man" -> this is the guy you need to blitz. Skinks need a 4+ to throw a quick pass so eliminate the handoff threath and they're under pressure.

[bjorn9486]

Do you have your opponents roster?

[Porkus_Maximus]

ooking at your team, the biggest problem you'll have is no LR with block/wrestle. If his lizards are developed, they might reduce your numbers a bit too quickly. Also, if you're flush with rerolls for some reason, don't hesitate to try some 3+ dodges to move away from lizards that are geared for destruction.

Most of my LR do not live to see 6spp unfortunately. LR casualties have surprisingly high (even for skaven) so the team is looking a bit top-heavy with all the skills invested in my positional players. If I have players to dodge at the end of the turn I will attempt it, but I don't often re-roll them unless the dodge is required for something important (like lending assist to hit the ball carrier).

Recently however I have managed to get a few LRs with wrestle, a few with dirty player and even one with guard.

Do you have your opponents roster?

Currently no. Will see if I can get hold of it.

[bjorn9486]

Currently no. Will see if I can get hold of it.

OK, well if you don't, here are a few pointers I have picked up from playing lizzards.
1. If he doesn't have Surehands or an AG4 skink, he is going to waste RR on picking up the ball.
2. Remember he has stunty, so if you are trying to stop a skink from moving, spread your guys out to cover as many TZ's as you can; eventually he will fail the dodge roll.
3. I would be blitzing with the SV with MB every turn, hitting a skink. The goal is to eliminate as many skinks as you can. I have had games where the only players my opponent had left were the Saurus, and it stopped him from scoring.

[TuernRedvenom]

3. I would be blitzing with the SV with MB every turn, hitting a skink. The goal is to eliminate as many skinks as you can. I have had games where the only players my opponent had left were the Saurus, and it stopped him from scoring.

I don't think any opponent worth his salt will let that happen more then a few times in the game.
After seeing you posted your squad here I think you are excellently equiped to beat lizzies.
RO needs to mark break tackle sauruses (stay away from the krox).
Side stepping gutters are excellent for marking key skinks.
The 2 heads player is great for getting at his ball carrier.
There's enough guard to punch a hole on offence.
You have 14 players, making man marking sauruses viable at crucial moments.