Talk Fantasy Football

Simple question, but one I've been debating a fair bit in my head recently. I'm planning to play a Lizardman team in a league being played on the Cyanide game (using Booty's league app though, so it's not too bad ) that starts in about a month.

I plan on starting with the Krox/6 Saur/4 Skink/2 RR build, and I am wonder what peoples thoughts are on deviating from conventional wisdom, and picking Tackle instead of Block on a double for the Krox (Nuffle willing ).

I really like the Prehensile Tail skill on on the Krox, and in my mind, a Krox with Prehensile Tail, Break Tackle and Tackle would be a fearsome thing to play against for many of the teams that prefer to dodge away than take the hit, and if the Krox can get into those ideal placements where they aren't just dodging end of turn, but actually dodging during the crucial parts of the play, I think it could win games.

I realise that even ST 5 without Block is not too hard to knockdown if you have a blocker you are willing to roll uphill dice with, and I'm sure I will curse myself everytime I have to take a both down and I skipped block, but you have to give up something I guess

So, I was wondering if people had any thoughts of theory-bowling to share on the subject, or if, ideally, anyone has played with a Krox with Tackle? Or I suppose any Tackle/Prehensile piece with good mobility?

ST5 with Loner is only a 62.5% to dodge into a cage with a reroll sadly
Edit: Ignore me. I was thinking I had to dodge into a cage to be useful, but since I don't need the Krox to blitz I can use the blitz to open a corner and stroll in

Anyway, off topic ramblings aside (Sorry, it's kinda late here).

Thoughts?

While the idea of the Krox with Tackle sounds tempting, you have to consider a few things:

1) This is only going to work if your krox is up against a player who actually has the Dodge skill. The krox is going to be facing the strength of the opposition more often (and they will often have Block).

2) By making it so difficult to dodge away, you are going to be forcing your opponent to take the hit against you - which could work in your favour, but all they need is a push to get rid of you so this leads me to....

3) Stand Firm is going to be more useful to you in this scenario than Break Tackle.

If you wanted to get more creative and REALLY nasty, then you could do a Stand Firm Krox with Diving Tackle - now that would make it really hard for anyone to get away!

If Prehensile Tail and Diving Tackle stack on the Cyanide client, I like this idea.

Also, there was a bug with Diving Tackle not applying to the reroll on the Cyanide game. I'll have to do some play-testing, but this is definitely an interesting avenue.

I understand what you are saving about Stand Firm over Break Tackle, and I think I agree. You can block the Krox free more reliably than you can hope for them to not get a push.

I would say be boring and go Block; I've played against a Block Krox before and they are annoying. The only other thing I might take on doubles would be Pro.

bjorn9486 wrote:I would say be boring and go Block; I've played against a Block Krox before and they are annoying. The only other thing I might take on doubles would be Pro.

But he already knows that "Black" is boring. He was asking for advice on an alternative. Sheesh....

But Pro is another solid choice.

Craigtw wrote:

bjorn9486 wrote:I would say be boring and go Block; I've played against a Block Krox before and they are annoying. The only other thing I might take on doubles would be Pro.

But he already knows that "Black" is boring. He was asking for advice on an alternative. Sheesh....

But Pro is another solid choice.

Fine, then he should take some "Dadge"

Well, if you're looking for something different (just for fun), think about sidestep. Combine that with prehensile tail and (later) guard, and he could be really annoying.

Of course, you can never go wrong with "Dadge"!

Diving Tackle works fine on Cyanide, it just reports it weirdly.

However take Block. The whole thing about using Krox's as pins is because the aren't that reliable a hitter and turnover quite often. Block, MB and S5 means not only is he fairly reliable hitter, but he hits hard too.

I like giving skinks SS & DT anyway so I don't need to skill a Krox to do a similar job.

If you already have break tackle, I'd consider dodge with a double.

Though block is almost always the best option.

If an answer is "boring" that's usually because it's either pointless or obvious. Guess which category Block fits into!

Occam was the best coach ever!

While I am the kind of coach/person who likes to avoid doing things that are common just to be different, this isn't about that for once

I realise the power of Dadge if I already have Break Tackle (Which I don't yet - league won't start for a month). I was really hoping to make the Krox something besides a straight up hitter, since he's not reliable enough to blitz with (Bonehead), it would be nice to have him do his job on just a move action.

But maybe you guys are right, Black may be the only real option for a competitive team...

solarflare wrote:Well, if you're looking for something different (just for fun), think about sidestep. Combine that with prehensile tail and (later) guard, and he could be really annoying.

Of course, you can never go wrong with "Dadge"!

I'd question the value of taking Sidestep on a double when Stand Firm is a normal roll. Plus, he won't have block or dodge, so he'd go down a fair bit, making him less useful than most sidesteppers.

It was sort of said above, but what I wanted to point out to the OP is that perhapse the largest utility from Block is in increasing the low reliability of the thing.

Lets put it this way. Lets say you throw a 2D block with the thing every turn of the game. That's 16 blocks (though probably a bit less due to the negaskill) with a 1 in 9 chance of causing a turnover. Loner means you only have a 50% chance of getting another shot at that roll.

That roughly amounts to two TRR dice burned a game and on top of it a turnover caused by the thing if you're regularly throwing blocks. And that really hurts.

Block drops the chance of blowing the roll to a quarter of that. Pro doesn't help with the turnover, but at least gets you your TRRs back and it might save you from a bonehead or GFI roll.

I don't like tackle in this manner as the opponent can still use a TRR to re-roll. Diving tackle is better, but still probably not worth it given the other options availible.

I'm not familiar with the Cyanide version, but I play Lizzies on the tabletop and have always thought either Pass Block or Shadowing could be really interesting. Are they the statistically best choices? No. But you asked for something different, and either of these would certainly get people's attention.

With Pass Block, Break Tackle and Prehensile Tail, that's a 7x7 set of squares a receiver might hesitate to go into. (Ok, Wood Elves may just laugh at you, but other receivers . . . ) Even if the Krox is marked, he's got good odds of making at least one dodge. Get to the receiver and it's -1 to Catch. If he does? It's -1 to Dodge.

Or

Shadowing with MA 6 is not a high percentage combo, but can work enough to be useful. Stacked with Prehensile Tail, you cause a -1 to your opponents Dodge Roll. And he may have to dodge again. And again! (Wood Elves, of course: still laughing.) You may not bring the guy down, but over the course of a game you could force your opponent to use a couple Team Re-rolls he would have preferred to use on something he's not as good at - say bringing down that pesky little Skink or hitting a Saurus with one die because he could only get one assist. And that GFI on Turn 8 to tie the game - oops - where did that re-roll go?

Sensible, high percentage skill choices? No. Entertaining when they work? Could be.

Unfortunately for the video game, a big part of either skill's potential effectiveness (other than entertainment value when they DO work) is forcing your opponent to think differently than he would normally. In a tabletop league, the Kroxigor can take down that Slann Catcher once, and the four other coaches in the room swear they'll never pass against you again. It doesn't matter that the skills were useless sixteen times - it works once and everybody goes, "Oh, crap!" That kinda gets lost in the video game.

If I get doubles on my Krox, he's getting Block because its sensible and my opponents are all bashy (Pass Block vs Khemri? I don't think so!). But you wanted something different and interesting, so there you go.

- JPS

AswanJaguar wrote:

solarflare wrote:Well, if you're looking for something different (just for fun), think about sidestep. Combine that with prehensile tail and (later) guard, and he could be really annoying.

Of course, you can never go wrong with "Dadge"!

I'd question the value of taking Sidestep on a double when Stand Firm is a normal roll. Plus, he won't have block or dodge, so he'd go down a fair bit, making him less useful than most sidesteppers.

Well, yeah, I'd definitely question the value of taking sidestep too... In fact, if I'm playing competitively, I'd never take anything but block on my first doubles choice for a Krox. It just seemed he was looking for something different.