Talk Fantasy Football

I've heard quite a few times that you should kick deep against bash teams and shallow against agility teams. The way I see it, where to kick depends more on whether you are bashIER than the other team.

I mostly play with Skaven, and I pretty much think the only reason to kick shallow against any team would be in hopes of getting Blitz! on the kick-off table. It's not a very likely result, so basing my tactics on it wouldn't seem wise.

Take Humans, for example. I wouldn't consider them a bash team, but I'd still prefer to kick deep against them. If I kick shallow (and don't roll Blitz!), they have more guys to form a cage and can protect the ball better. With Skaven, I'll lose if I get into a slug-fest. On the other hand, if I kick deep, my opponent will have to spread his defense and unless he throws the ball on his first turn, he won't get it anywhere near the centerline (where most of the slugging takes place). Then on my turn I can get a few of my guys to harrass the ball carrier and try to screen him from his other players, hoping to force an error.

Thinking about it, I'd probably kick deep against any kind of elves as well (I haven't played against elves much).

I guess the way I see it, the more distance my opponent has to move the ball, the likelier he is to fail, regardless of his ability to move the ball. With bash teams it's just emphasized.

Now granted, I haven't played the game a lot (maybe 30 games total), and I've played almost every game with Skaven. I can't see how kicking shallow against any team would be beneficial with Skaven (unless you take Blitz! into consideration, which the Skaven can utilize better than most teams).

Am I missing something here?

It depends how they are set up. Kicking 'shallow' as you call it can be very useful for spreading a team out and therefore stopping him making a decent cage. Your opponent could be set up in order to maximise on bashing or set up with more bodies on one side than the other. If you kick shallow to a corner with few bodies in it then you can really put the pressure on your opponent. I hardly ever kick deep these days.

If your opponent can't cage on you (effectively, that is), kick shallow. If they put only one retriever back or have major speed problems and no ability to throw, kick deep. Otherwise, it's a matter of your speed and ability to pressure the ball. Of course, the major advantage of Kick is to keep the offense ready for a plan B, limiting the power of the strong-side and forcing adequate strength to be maintained in the backfield, even if the offense has a good passing game. Or, if you can keep your opponent's avenues to just one side of the field, to stall out a groundpounder strategy.

With Orcs, I always kick shallow. But I only get Kick with an Orc team after I've assembled the components of a scary Half-Zig (to handle bash) and Orklahoma (to handle speed), and that takes a good 10-15 games, even with careful development.

With High Elves, I kick deep unless I'm up against a light opponent with good ball control and they build a strong side: then I kick shallow on the weak side. Or on the top of Turn 8, where I'll kick shallow in hopes to get a garbage Comp.

I'm fond of kicking shallow, as others mentioned, IF the opponent has set up in a way that I can get more people on the ball than he can... and potentially cause a turnover.... It's very situational, however....

Undead and Necro teams get better-than average benefit from shallow kicking, as they have a preponderance of slow players, and a couple of them are very hard to get off the ball.

kiih wrote: I guess the way I see it, the more distance my opponent has to move the ball, the likelier he is to fail, regardless of his ability to move the ball.

I think this is a wise and cautious strategy that most football coaches follow. In BB, wise and cautious get thrown to the wind in hopes of creating that mad scramble that is called pressuring the ball carrier. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

I would say it's good to try different approaches to the game and find your own way. When I kick, I think most about my opponents ability to move the ball.
For Dwarves, I kick shallow to jump on them early and try to avoid the cage. When kicking to Elves, I like to kick deep and force them to make more rolls on passing and hand-offs. However, kick shallow to Elves and you could conceivably bash them quicker to have a chance at a turn over before they set up.

Try both methods and find out what works for you. You might find that after kicking shallow a couple of times, you end up doing it a lot.

Of course if you're skaven you should kill deep - Speed and Ball Sacking are your raison d'etre. Skaven therefore are a special case.

And you're correct that the advise should be deep to 'bashier' teams, relavtive to your team.

Grogmir wrote:Of course if you're skaven you should kill deep -

Kill 'em deep or shallow. Just so they're dead.

My article on the Kick skill explains why http://bbtactics.com/kick/

Great article as always, Coach!

Hey, if you want a proofreader, PM me. My rates are pretty reasonable, and your material really deserves a good proofreader.

kiih wrote:I've heard quite a few times that you should kick deep against bash teams and shallow against agility teams. The way I see it, where to kick depends more on whether you are bashIER than the other team.

I'd kick short against any team you think will rely more on keeping the ball out of reach than in a cage. Those who need to cage up against you kick deep to spread the play as much as possible to increase the chances of getting a break.

For me it depends on who is doing the ball retrieving. The lower the AG or MV of the team, the more likely I am to kick shallow and put pressure on the ball.

Kicking deep against a good bashing coach may actually be helpful since he can set up his players in advance to help to advance the cage.

Kicking shallow can force your opponent to commit to ballhandling earlier in their turn. Even if they stall a pickup-man, they'll still need to move coverage to the ball. This can pull players out of a bash (or cage attempt) that he's planned, and force him to ad lib a bit.

Kicking shallow and wide is great if you are a cage-busting team like Slann or Vampires. Your opponent will have players committed deep (for that kick) on the LoS and on the other flank, so the eventual cage he ends up with will be much weaker than one he moves into from deep.

Also, if you've been fortunate enough to wear down your opponent's numbers, Kick will force him to go even more thinly all around, or risk your picking up a loose ball and defensive scoring.... Being "men down" in this game really hurts!... kick just makes it hurt more....