Gobbo headscratch: rostered vs. unrostered Secret Weapons

[Smeborg]

I am inexperienced as a Gobbo coach. Indeed, I have not played them since the heady days of 3rd Edition. 3 games into this season, my Gobbos had suffered the following injuries on starting players:

1 dead Fanatic
1 dead Looney
1 dead Pogoer
1 dead Gobbo
1 retired Gobbo (-1ST)
Several MNGs

I had been curious to test the dynamic of rostered Secret Weapons (a.k.a. players that get sent off automatically) ever since the idea was implemented several years ago. I have followed discussions of the issue with interest. The problems with rostered SWs (perhaps most acute on a starting roster) are:

- You may not be able to support them with Bribe(s) and/or Babe(s) from inducements.
- They give you a shrinking roster as the game goes on.
- If you have 11 starting players and no bribes, each SW on the team means one less player for all subsequent drives of the match (Journeymen would be better in most circumstances).

I have suffered from all of these problems. Even allowing for my own incompetence and a degree of "misfortune" on casualty rolls, starting a league with SWs on the roster has undoubtedly caused me problems relating to roster depth. From now on, I intend to dispense with rostered SWs in favour of the a 14 man roster with no rostered SWs. I still like SWs, but will keep them to Stars and Mercs. This keeps open the option to field 2 SWs of the same type, as well as being able to support any SW, typically, with Bribe(s) and Babe(s). (I play in an open league - I have no guarantee of receiving inducements.) The pros and cons of this strategy would appear to be:

PRO
Flexibility (different SWs for different opponents, or not taking SWs at all)
Roster depth
Merc SWs can be given a skill (thus better than rookies in some circumstances)
Support from Bribes and Babes to keep the SWs out of the dugout and on the pitch

CON
Merc SWs come with Loner, hence cannot use Re-rolls as reliably as rostered SWs
Merc SWs cannot skill up more than once, and cannot take doubles skills

It seems to me that the pros outweigh the cons in this case, especially since the SWs come with inbuilt self-destruct mechanisms. Anyway, I will now start to test the method out. It seems to allow for "da cunningest plan..." I would be interested to hear from any coaches who have tried this system in practice.

[Harry Buddha Palm]

If you're not going to roster secret weapons, then why not try Underworld instead? I played a game once just to try them out and they were a lot of fun. You get more speed and mutations which means goblins with two heads and big hands and horns zipping all over the place swooping up loose balls and four-armed skaven throwers and blitzers with claws and a troll with tentacles. They can be pretty nasty after a while, if you can keep the deaths to a minimum.

[Smeborg]

Good suggestion, but I may wait until next season to try out the Underworld.

With Gobbos, I like the idea of being able to take, for example, 2 Saws or 2 Ball and Chains, supported by 2 Bribes and 2 Babes, but not being forced to take any particular SW if it doesn't suit the specific match.

[mattgslater]

You've got to burn your cash on something, right? So just hire a Pogo and a bunch of guys until you get to like 13 players, then start getting the SWs on the roster. Eventually, your winnings will start to outpace attrition.

[lerchey]

Good suggestion, but I may wait until next season to try out the Underworld.

With Gobbos, I like the idea of being able to take, for example, 2 Saws or 2 Ball and Chains, supported by 2 Bribes and 2 Babes, but not being forced to take any particular SW if it doesn't suit the specific match.

Um.. I don't think so. You aren't allowed to exceed the normal number of any position on the team using mercs. Thus, if you buy 1 chainsaw merc and a Star Player with a chainsaw, you could have 2, but that's the only way.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I read the Mercenaries section in LRB 5 and 5+. Didn't look it up in C.R.A.P.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, but you can take one, and a star that does the same thing. So you can have two. You just have to be the underdog.

[Joemanji]

1) Are you using the new 9=BH rule properly?

2) SWs are the only reason to play Goblins. Otherwise, as has been said, play Underworld.

3) You need to limit the number of SWs you take. If you take 3 (or more), they all get sent off and the rest will get picked off. Best to have 2 and whatever you Induce. I always use the chainsaw and the fanatic.

[Smeborg]

Joemanji - I am playing the Stunty/BH rule correctly.

I like SWs, and started with the Saw and the Fanatic (I don't like the look of the Bomber, and agree that 2 SWs is about right).

This strategy, which appealed to me on paper, did not work in practice, hence my original post.

[DoubleSkulls]

Start every game with 16 players. Having a deep bench is the single most important thing for helping you win games.

Then the SWs should remove opponents from the pitch at about the same rate you lose players yourself. Then you should for subsequent drives have the numerical superiority.

Lots of deaths isn't that uncommon, although it suggests you might be being unlucky and turning over a lot early in the turn or you are overcommitting and allowing too many players to get hit.

[Carnis]

I'd look at fielding 14-15man team, 1 rostered SW (either Saw, Bomb or Fan) with a clear development plan. Without a dev plan the hired fana is better due to MB, while the bomb and saw are better rostered due to RRs. Same applies to the pogo, but he isnt really a SW anyway as he doesnt get sent off.

Problem I have with the saw is it needs huge protection (end blitz next to opponent). If you fail the armor you almost always die . The same problem applies to fanatic somewhat, if you're out in the open you die.

I'd look at:
Saw that only fouls (doubles = dirty player, normal skill = LEAP).
Ballcarrying pogo (really fast + a 3+ leap is really good for a scoring option).
Fanatic, if no saw who goes for MB/Grab.
Bomber, if no saw/fanatic who prays for doubles or gets sacked at 6spp..

I'd prefer bomber/fanatic over the other SWs cause they give you free blitzes. Remember to bribe foulers too..

[mattgslater]

Leaping Saw Blitz! Yay! I've never had the opportunity to try this.

If you have a TRR...
15/36 to Leap, saw with TRR
10/36 to Leap, saw without TRR
9/36 to fail Leap
2/36 to backfire saw

Vs. AV8...
25/36 x 26/36 to injure without TRR = 650/1296 = a hair over 50%
15/36 x 10/36 to TRR, with 26/36 success = 3900/46,656, which reduces to just about exactly 3/1296. So that's 653/1296, about 50.5% chance to succeed. When one considers "success" not only a scattering ball, but also an injury roll, that's actually pretty solid. Risky: you have an 11/36 chance of getting smacked (well, it's a touch less, 'cause the backfiring saw has a 1/6 to fail vs AV7).

[Marlow]

As Doubleskulls says you need a deep bench to play Goblins. Having Ten Normal Goblins, Pogo & Two Trolls on the team gives you 13 players that will not get sent off at the end of a drive. So you can fit all three Secret Weapons on the team. I prefer to only run with two of them and have an open space to hire a star/merc. If you start a game with less than 15 Players you are probably going to loose the attrition war.

I would never have though of putting Leap on a Saw. I will try that next time mine skills up.

[plasmoid]

IMO, the Saw is by far the most efficient secret weapon.

The fanatic looks cool but, having played against several, I find it too easy to get rid of.

On the other hand, the bombardier can be awesome.

Both the saw and bombs can be awesome when not hampered by loner. I'd stick to that for SWs.

[Smeborg]

Thanks, guys, for all your helpful tips.

I have no doubt had some bad luck with the distribution of Casualty rolls (tending towards Dead on the SWs).

The SWs did well while they existed, for example, in my very first game, they got an outstanding draw against well-coached rookie Necros (Ghoul Cas'd by the Looney, ball-carrying Wight sacked by the Fanatic). It was after that that things went pear-shaped, with the Cas kicking in, and rostered SWs unsupported by Bribes causing problems on a shrinking 11-man roster (I started with 14 including 2 SWs).

The main lesson I have learned is that it is better not to start with SWs on the roster. Whether you buy them as you last rostered players, or try my suggestion to take SWs as inducements only, I am open-minded (I see advantages to both strategies). I will give the inducement strategy a go for a while, and see how it works.

All the best.

[Carnis]

My gobbo team woud likely look like this:

1 Pogo 70k
1 Saw 40k
11 Goblins 440k
2 Trollz 220k
3 RRs 180k
Apo 50k
= 1000k

No cash for bribes, no fan, but the extra gobs are worth more than bribes imho. There's still room for ripper or the hired fanatic. The saw would ballcarry + possibly blitz low AV players whilst doing it (risky, but FUN!). If receive on the 2nd round then the Saw would just foul sadly..

The primary ballcarry would be teh pogo, but only after the saw has skilled up.