Two Hobgoblin Doubles

[bungo_underhill]

Okay so after my second game with choas dwarves I've got two hobgoblin Skill ups. These are the teams first two skills and they're both double rolls! 4+4 & 5+5!

Now I was planning on just taking sure hands on my hobgoblins but this unexpected boon has caught me unawares. What do you guys think I should pick?

Dodge, Leader, Guard, Hail Mary, +MA???

[Harry Buddha Palm]

I vote for dodge. Guard is a great skill, but you'll have it on your blockers and maybe your minotaur, too if you get one. Plus, to use guard, your hobgoblin will have to stand next to an enemy player, and that's usually not a good idea. With dodge, you can give them both block next and then sure hands and they'll be great ball runners.

Chaos Dwarfs don't go through players much, so they tend to build up money quickly which means getting rerolls won't be a problem, so leader isn't neccesary. I never used hail mary pass, so I don't know how useful it would be with Chaos Dwarfs. They don't seem like a good team to use it with, but I could be wrong.

[Smeborg]

My choice would be:

Dodge for the 4+4 Hobgob, to be followed by Block, Fend, Pro (Sidestep on a second doubles). Utility player/Receiver.

+1MA for the 5+5 Hobgob, to be followed by Sure Hands, Kick-off Return, Block, Fend (Sure Feet, Sprint on doubles). Primary ball carrier/Runner.

Hope that helps.

[mattgslater]

Above suggestions are nice and strong. If you want to go off the beaten path, and still be very effective, then perhaps you might want to consider Accurate.

[Grumbledook]

Dodge on both will be more effective now with less tackle around, or I'd take guard

just cause you have to be next to an opponent to make use of it, doesn't mean that you are the one moving next to players, opponents tend to move next to your hobbos

perhaps if they have guard they won't move next to them to cancel the assist out any more either

[Harry Buddha Palm]

People tend to go for the hobgoblins, though and the closer they are to the action, the easier they are to hit. I tend to sic my hobgoblins on isolated players that are seperated from the pack while the dwarfs and minotaur pen the rest of my opponent's team together. In that situation, it's usually 2 hobgoblins or a hobgoblin and a bull on one player, so guard isn't neccessary. If I already had a couple of hobgoblins with dodge, then I'd probably put guard on one, though. You can't have too much guard. I think early on, though, making a couple of ball-handlers with dodge would be better.

[stashman]

Mighty Blow for more killing!!!

Maybe Sneaky Git.

[Rhyoth]

An unusual case may call for an unusual decision, how about :

Accurate / Pass / HMP on the first one and Diving Catch on the other ?
or
Jump Up on both ?
...
There's a lot of interresting choices here (I also like Sneaky Git and +1 MA), but I hate to say that Dodge (once again) may be the most effective here ...

[mattgslater]

The great thing about Hobs is you can build them to specialize in one side or the other. You can make offensive or defensive Hobs, rather than having to build the best guys going both ways. So there may be one or two "best" answers (mark me down for MA and Dodge), there are a whole lot of "good" answers here.

[Harry Buddha Palm]

I always see people suggest putting passing skills on hobgoblins and I always want to say "But, who's he going to pass the ball to?!", but Grumbledook or someone else always beats me to it. Well, not this time!

Who's he going to pass the ball to?!

Sure, you can make a receiving hobgoblin to go with him, but then you've got one hobgoblin that can't do anything but pass the ball (and not very well, I might add) and one that can't do anything but catch the ball (and not very well, I might add). What happens when one of the pair gets KO'ed, injured, or is missing the game completly? Then you've got one useless hobgoblin that can't do anything. And even if you do have both hobgoblins on the field, it'll be incredibly difficult to not only protect the thrower, but also protect the catcher and make sure he's open and can score. That's no easy task. When you've got one hobgoblin with catch or diving catch out in the back field, it's pretty easy for your opponent to figure out what's going to happen soon.

When I had a second hobgoblin get 4 agility, I thought "Hey! Two hobgoblins with 4 agility! Now I can pass!". The next game, I went out of my way to pass the ball from one hobgoblin to the other, and while it did work and I did manage to score, it was such a huge pain in the ass to pull off that I never bothered to do it again. It was just too hard to protect my thrower, protect my catcher and try and get my catcher in the open. It's just not worth it. Chaos Dwarfs are simply NOT a good passing team. They are too slow and not agile enough. Your hobgoblins only have 3 agility which is just too unreliable to pass effectively and the rest of your team only has 2 agility. Hell, my skaven thrower has pass and sure hands built in and that dipshit flubs the ball more often than not. There's also the fact that you usually only have two or three hobgoblins on the pitch at one time, which means only one or two players to pass to, which are pretty easy to cover. The price you pay for all that sweet armor and bashing power on a Chaos Dwarf team is that you are slow and have to run the ball.

[kombat]

I really dont like dodge on hobgoblins since they will mostly get hunted down by my opponents tackle players. Either no dodge or mass dodge. I liek the +MV it gives nice range for the hobgoblin. I also think sneaky git can be effective when you dont want to man up too much on the fouling and it combos nicely with dirty player .

So +MV and Sneaky Git is my vote

[Marlow]

Dodge and +MV would make them better as runners. I would put Dodge on both of them and build them as runners with Block and Sure Hands later. Once you have some reserves they would only take to the field when receiving.

[Da_Great_MC]

Dodge x2. Next skill Wrestle on both.

Keeps them alive, makes them good in attacking the ball carrier.

[mattgslater]

Who's he going to pass the ball to?

He's going to pass the ball to whoever's going to score or carry, so you can cage downfield and have more control over the game. Either he picks up in the backfield and QPs into a hedgy cage, or he moves up to play conduit, taking a handoff and running the ball, then QP'ing to the cage-front or an option when the time comes to score. Accurate is also good when you find yourself in a scrum in your own backfield: get the ball clear and if you have a TRR, you can chuck a long pass with a 35/36 chance of not fumbling. What, have you never played Orcs? The Thrower is the hidden difference between a BOB and a Dwarf (B/T/TS vs. ST4 and the proper support to develop quickly).

Chaos Dwarfs have lots of slow players, but they have enough MA to play any kind of tempo if they can get the ball where they need it to go, much like Undead. Given that 14 men and 4 TRRs is only 1.31M+FF, and given that Dwarfs skill so slowly, there's definitely room to spread the skill love around the Hobs.

[txapo]

Another one: for the "ball carrier" dump off, then sure hands, for the other MA, its always most useful.