Help with a Skaven Team Growth

Hells_Fire · Post by **Hells_Fire** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:38 am

I am new to Skaven and need to know what to give each player

Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Rat Ogre
Gutter Runner
Gutter Runner
Thrower

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 4:21 am

Always take a mutation when given the opportunity. (Doubles)

Well for the Rat ogre the first must is block. With wild animal he's forced to block whatever the odds. At least with block there's one less result that will fell him.

Gutter runners. Diving catch is useful for wayward throws, but with a move of 9, a running game might suit your team better. GR quite often break through the line and defending players will drop back in one final attempt to blitz him. You can use this to your advantage if your GR has sidestep. Every time he pushes you back, you elect where to go. Thus you can choose to move nearer the TD zone. This way you can end up scoring in the opponent's turn if you're a square short!

Who else.... Stormvermin, can be useful with tackle or guard, or even mighty blow... but really although they are good enough to block they never have the support they require for a truely effective blocking game. But then Skaven aren't a punchy kind of team.

Linemen? Mix it up. See what you get with the rolls.

Throwers. Hail Mary pass is interesting you can drop the thrower back to safety near your TD zone. Send a few Skaven up field, hopefully with the Diving Catch skill, and then lob the ball right up field. Wherever it lands one of the speedy Skaven will be able to pick it up the following turn and score. Provided he couldn't diving catch it. Obviously if there are opponent players dropped back this may become a little harder!

Jus a few ideas? Was that what you were after?

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 4:24 am

Start with block on the RO and most of your linemen. Maybe go with kick and Dirty player on a couple. On doubles have fun, thats what skaven are about.

Gut Runners, hope for doubles and take VLLgs, sprint and sure feet to make one into a one turner. Take block, Dauntless, Horns, Shadowing, Tackle on one for an awesome backfield defender. Oh yeah, pray for a Str increase.

Thrower go with Accurate, Block, Safe Throw and Dump off.

My suggestions anyway.

Oh yeah, get Storm vermin ASAP!

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:05 am

Khrage wrote:Start with block on the RO and most of your linemen. Maybe go with kick and Dirty player on a couple. On doubles have fun, thats what skaven are about.

Gut Runners, hope for doubles and take VLLgs, sprint and sure feet to make one into a one turner. Take block, Dauntless, Horns, Shadowing, Tackle on one for an awesome backfield defender. Oh yeah, pray for a Str increase.

Thrower go with Accurate, Block, Safe Throw and Dump off.

My suggestions anyway.

Oh yeah, get Storm vermin ASAP!

=>stop thosqe basicall advices...
Giving block to every player is not a good idea.
Giving Block to the thrower is even worst!!!

I will give an other type of skills to take:
Shadow,Kick...
Classic:
Strom Vermine: Dauntless(if you can), MB
Storm Vermin2:Tackle, MB, Strip ball.

But all depence of your way to play them. Pass, Run, agressive defence,waiting defence...
With Skavens i play in offense:Short pass,Hand off and long run.
In Defence i prefer agreesive style with all the gunter trying to go on the ball carrier. (Strip ball for one of them is nice for example).

Of course Double means Mutations...
I will not say more , i am going to sleep

Try to think different than everybody about the tactic and you ll get a much more advantage!!

Icedman · Post by **Icedman** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:15 am

Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Rat Ogre
Gutter Runner
Gutter Runner
Thrower

Interesting lineup; I've just finished the play-offs for the Chaos Cup (our league's second cup) with my Skaven team, and I was a noob to speed when I started them (longtime Orc/Chaos/Me-Beet-U-On-Hed types), but they've suited me brilliantly. But anyway...

Like the other guys said, Block then Pro for the Rat Ogre; Block will keep him alive a little more often in those not-so-good blocks he'll have to make, and Pro is about the only way he'll ever get to re-roll something.

Without Stormvermin on your starting lineup, you'll have to get those Linerats working. Block is pretty much indispensible; after that, Sure Hands for Runner-types, and Tackle/Strip Ball for defensive types. Definately go for mutations on doubles; my first Linerat to crack 6 SPP's got Horns and made a GREAT sweeper (pity he got killed in the next game

)

Your Thrower... now that's a tough one. I spent all of my first cup and a game or 2 of my second with only 1 thrower, and I didn't have too much trouble moving the ball upfield. Just remember, your Gutter Runners can pass the ball a little better (no personal re-roll, but better base roll), and with a Team re-roll handy, any one of your Linerats can throw just as well. My thrower (Goofy) is currently on 23(?) SPPs, with Sure Hands, Pass, Safe Throw (3 of my passes were intercepted before I got this skill

), and Big Hand. I'm looking to get him another double on his next advance so I can give him Nerves of Steel (or maybe Dodge: get in, pick up the ball in the midst of a scrum, and get the ball/himself AND the ball out again).

Gutter Runners are the stars of the Skaven team, though. But with this stardom comes a very big downside: TARGET. My opponents (one of whom had played Skaven previously, another had played his team) already had some idea of how the team was run, and so tried to shut down my GRs. When that happens, they're bound to leave a Linerat lightly (if at all) marked, and you can usually risk clearing him and throwing the ball for a TD run that your opponent didn't see coming! Anyway, get em Block, maybe Side Step, and look for mutations on doubles (my star GR atm only has Dodge, but is St 3, Ag 5, and Av 9[Magic Helmet and Spikes]!!!

)

Lastly, get your hands on some Storm Vermin quick! My 2, Mickey and Minnie (see a naming convention emerging here?

) became CAS-causing terrors of our league for the first cup after both picking up Mighty Blow (they were doing better than the Chaos team, and keeping close to the Undead's Mummies!). Now, they both have Tackle as well, and Minnie has +1AG; all because my opponents would concentrate on shutting down my GRs, and I'd just throw the ball at a Storm Vermin instead. I'm praying that Mickey will roll a double when he next advances (its only about 5 SPPs away), so I can give him Razor Sharp Fangs, or Horns, and reaffirm his place as casualty machine

Wow, that was an essay, wasn't it

Dunno if it helps any, but I hope you got something from it.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:24 am

Development Tips

Stick to a plan. Always have in the back of your mind (or on the back of your teamsheet) what you want to achieve with the team. Skaven have access to every skill list so you can easily find yourself with a mismatch of skills across your team which does you no good in the long run.

With mutations - decide early what you're going to do with them. I'm currently using a lot of passblock + foul appearance which has been fun to play with. You could go the claws/fangs route if you're feeling really bloody minded. Remember, you don't always have to get a mutation just because you rolled a double. Skills like guard always come in handy on a skaven team.

Linerats

Send a linerat down with your recievers on every drive. They need to develop skills and having them hanging around as a 3rd string reciever is a good way to get them.

For skills - I suggest Block and Tackle for standard skills. Uninspiring I know but they're not really the guys making the plays. Block and Tackle will add to their survivability and help force errors.

On doubles you can look at things like claw/fangs, foul appearance or guard. If you're going to use foul appearance, make sure every linerat that rolls a double gets it. 1 FA linerat is a nuisance, 4 are lethal. Combine it with passblock for the ultimate in pass denial.

Always worth getting a kicker and a dirty player as well.

Throwers

Treat them like human throwers. Build up one guy with Accurate, Strong Arm, Safe Throw and use him to set your options off the kickoff.

The other guy can make use of Block, Big Hand, Nerves of Steel. Get him stuck into the action and use him to move loose balls out to your Gutter Runners.

Storm Vermin

Under 3rd ed I would have sworn by Stand Firm for these guys. It's harder to get and a little less useful now but worth a look. Guard and Mighty Blow are handy for SVs. Don't worry about getting blitzer skills for these guys, Your other players are just as fast and agile. They have ST skills and AV8 so use them as blockers.

Gutter Runners

The stars of your team. Contrary to conventional wisdom I've found you don't need to build them up as 1 turn scorers with catch/leap etc. You need 3 GRs built for turning the ball over and 1 in training as a 1 turn scorer.

If you want a 1 turn scorer: first double you roll for a gutter runner, give him very long legs, you can then give him sprint and you have your 1 turner. For the others, pick skills that help turn the ball over in your opponents turn.

Some good combos after 3 skill rolls:

Dodge, Block, Diving Tackle, Sidestep
Dodge, Block, Sidestep, Shadow
Dodge, Block, Passblock, Diving Tackle.

With some doubles:

Dodge, Block, Dauntless, Strip Ball

With 2 Doubles:

Dodge, Block, Dauntless, Horns

Stat increases change the selections around a bit. Leap and passblock are good on an AG5 runner. Strip Ball is good if they get +MA

Rat Ogres

Do not, under any circumstances, buy a Rat Ogre until your roster is full. Even then think twice. Any decent opponent will make you suffer for picking a rat ogre. Before I bought a Rat Ogre I had gone 4 seasons without losing more than 3-4 games. After I bought an RO in the current season I went on a 5 game losing streak.

If you must have a Rat Ogre, force feed them Touchdowns and Completions until you can get them a skill. Then buy them block. Do not pass go, do not collect £200, get them block.

Hope this helps

l_dauguet · Post by **l_dauguet** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:22 am

i agrre with Marcus although i think that RO are fun to play

the thing is buit up a general tactic andit'll bemuch easier to select skills.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:38 pm

Having just scraped a flukey draw against Marcus's skavs, I would seriously recommend his suggestions.

I'd always recommend planning - know what skills you want players to get so that you develop a complementary set of skills rather than a random assortment.

You don't have to go into great detail but should know for most players which skills or traits you will take if they get a skill.

Ian

Hells_Fire · Post by **Hells_Fire** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:31 pm

I could get rid of the RO and take awy 2 Fan Factor to start with two Stormies. Or I could just force him to be a Thrower for a game and keep saving my $. I already have 30,000 in my treasury.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:24 pm

If your opponents aren't particularly good take the Rat Ogre and use him as a sweeper. An average to good opponent will take you to lunch though.

I'd recommend getting two Vermin instead.

hold the phone!

I just noticed you said lose 2 FF and take 2 SV instead. I make that a 160k Ratogre. I'm assuming, then, you mean Headsplitter the Star Player and not a rookie Wild Animal afflicted Ratogre.

Hey, if you're allowed stars, take him. Headsplitter kicks arse

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:34 pm

>stop thosqe basicall advices...
Giving block to every player is not a good idea.
Giving Block to the thrower is even worst!!!

Then Longshot, my first action will be to take out your thrower. Block on a thrower gives him survivability, and that is a must on a skaven team. It is the first skill on all my passers, and I have yet to regret it.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:46 pm

Khrage wrote:>stop thosqe basicall advices...
Giving block to every player is not a good idea.
Giving Block to the thrower is even worst!!!

Then Longshot, my first action will be to take out your thrower. Block on a thrower gives him survivability, and that is a must on a skaven team. It is the first skill on all my passers, and I have yet to regret it.

do as you want but my thrower is safe without it. Take a second thrower in case of. And dont forget that your gunter can throw the ball too.
I prefer a good thrower that another block guy.
Anyway, i dont give Block to all my players because with much more different skills you are most dangerous if you all use them well.
This is my way of thinking and playing. But if it works for you, keep like this.

This is like giving block/dodge to all elf players....Sorry but this is bad.
There is a lot of good skills that you can combinate, use them, it works better.

Khrage · Post by **Khrage** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:42 am

I see your point, but the thread comment seemed to be a "what would you do" situation, and that is what I do. I usually groom my throwers to be as versatile as possible, and part of this is block. On a side note, I was laughing hysterically last night when my orc thrower took a two die block from Ripper Bolgrot, double down and skull. He burned a reroll, double-down and skull. Ripper on his butt, and my thrower skampering for the pickup, a quick pass, and the game winning TD.

As far as giving the linerats block, he had no stormvermin.

Hence the need for a core of blockers. Maybe my advice was simple, but he didn't ask for advanced topics.

Besides block is one of the most fundimental skills in the game. Versatility is great, but core skills help more in the long run.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:10 pm

I have to agree that long term you need to do everything possible to protect your rats. Their 7 armor will give you some serious problems in a lot of games, and block will keep them that much safer. I'm 23 games into a season with my Skaven team, and only one player from the original roster remains. Playing Skaven in a bashing league means you have to think about block on every skill roll, and spikes are a consideration on doubles.