Pass Defence

[GuppyShark]

I would like to know how people generally approach/deal with/defeat the long pass, specifically from AG4 teams.

In my last season I went 1-2-3 against Elf teams with my Norse. It is a weakness of my playstyle that I have difficulty dealing with agile opponents that can outmaneuver me and this became very apparent in the semi-final against a wood elf team.

When they received, they would keep their thrower deep and flood my backfield with receivers.

I would typically blitz one into the turf and heavily mark-up the others. They would then move their thrower up, pass to a receiver who would then dodge out for the touchdown, never needing anything worse than 3+ with reroll, for a 2-turn score.

Do people typically assume that they will be scored against and hope for the 1/36 1-reroll-1? I think this is the case but it also suggests you will never be able to make a comeback once you're behind.

Is this a situation where it would be a good idea to have a really fast blitzer built who can threaten to take down the thrower even when he's back deep?

Is there a defensive coverage scheme that will actually force the offence to hold onto the ball, or make genuinely difficult dodges? Should I concede the midfield and flood the red zone?

I want to be clear that my purpose is not to have a whinge about how hard elves are to beat but instead I want to learn how to adapt my game to deal with them as they are.

[mattgslater]

1) Build a defense that keeps the opponent out in all points or all but one point. If you let your opponent in in only one place, your coverage job is that much easier. If you're fast, set up shallow to maximize your pass rush. If you're slow, set up deep to keep from being outpaced. It's especially valuable to force offenses to go wide, as they can only put two men into the wide zones and won't be able to put up a good downfield cage.

2) Protect a blitzer in a safety position. He doesn't have to be deep, just not reasonably coverable. Use him to take out the best target. Stand Firm/Frenzy is a killer combo on such a player; the second block sends the receiver upfield, and two bites at the apple never hurts; then, on the defender's turn, he can't just blitz back out, at least not reliably; even if he does, he loses 2-5 squares of movement (5 if he falls, 2 if he doesn't).

3) Partition the field. If the offense goes one way, put a vertical screen going downfield on the other side, preferably anchored with ST4. This lets you cover with fewer men, and makes a good base for your pass rush. A good pass rush is especially good against air teams that need the mobility to make Quick or Short Passes, like Dark Elves. A well-designed pass rush will force a long-pass, if you can get a strong enough screen with a small enough investment (Chaos Dwarfs, Chaos, Lizardmen and Norse are great here). That's not enough against High Elves or sometimes Wood or Pro Elves.

4) Always remember, offense is water, and will flow to the weakest point. Eventually, it will get in if you don't either kill it or get the ball. This is why a pass-rush is preferable to a straight-up stall... when it works. They're not exclusive, especially if the kick goes wide. If you can use +ST or positioning skills to reduce your commitment, you can make a bigger screen. I like to mark with Blockers and rush with Blitzers as much as possible.

5) Build for it. Tackle is nice, but is comparatively expensive beyond the first two as it will sometimes be irrelevant. Stand Firm works against everything, but is particularly effective in multiples when it comes to shutting out agility offenses. Have enough men that you don't worry about going man-down. If you have cheap linemen, then a Dirty Player isn't a bad investment. Kick is better against slow teams, but kicking shallow can win you games, particularly if the pickup fails.

[Smeborg]

GuppyShark - here are some ideas.

(1) It is not enough to just mark up receivers. I find it pays to think in terms of creating a wide net of interlocking tackle zones for your opponent. This makes it difficult to move his Thrower into comfortable passing range, as well as creating a situation where the receiver needs to make multiple dodges in order to reach the end zone.

(2) You should be able to bring down one receiver on your first turn. If you find you still have to mark multiple receivers, it may indicate that your defense is too easily penetrated, and that you need to think in terms of making it more difficult for your opponent to get receivers into easy scoring distance on his first turn.

(3) Try to make sure that you always get an intercept attempt. This does not sound like much if you need a natural 6, especially if your opponent has Safe Throw, but it is better than nothing. And it may have a deterrent effect.

(4) Try to find ways to create a direct threat to the ball on your first turn (one way is by having a Kicker and kicking short). Having to protect the ball will distract your opponent and weaken his offense, making it less penetrative on his first turn.

(5) Force your opponent to roll as many dice as possible. He will fail some of these, leading either to a turnover, or at least consuming a team re-roll, giving you improved chances for the rest of the half. Think of each of these rolls as a little cumulative advantage in your favour. Think also in terms of positioning your players such that when a seemingly "lucky" turnover eventually comes, it works greatly to your advantage (for example you put 3 players in the dugout on your next turn, or whatever).

Hope that helps and all the best!

[Ullis]

Making it as hard as possible is a good way to approach it and often that's about as much as you can possibly do.

Even multiple 2+ rolls with a reroll add up quickly. 5 2+ rolls (say, dodge to provide assist, dodge to blitz marker off receiver, block with Block, pass to receiver, catch, one GFI to score) has chances of failing more than 13%.

Getting 3+ rolls in there make the odds a lot worse. We'll add a long pass and a catch in one TZ to the above example (dodge to assist, dodge to blitz, block with Block, long pass to receiver, catch in one TZ, convert GFI to dodge to score) and the odds of failure at some point go all the way to almost 30%.

Now add an interception attempt there and we're at 40% chances of failure for the offence.

And those examples are not all that hard to engineer. It's especially good if you can force the opponent to go for those 3+ rolls with a reroll because they add a lot of uncertainty and chances of failure.

[Coach]

Skill combos like Diving Tackle with either Side Step or Stand Firm are very helpful.

Advancing Runners with Dodge, Side Step then Diving Tackle are going to be an option for Norse teams.

A lot of the time agility teams are fairly hard to stop scoring and the best counter to it is not letting them get the ball and controlling the amount of turns they have to actually score in.

http://bbtactics.com/2-1-grind/ this is a fairly common tactic to use and also the latest article on Marking Players may be of some help to you as well.

Good Luck!

[Smurf]

Hence the use of Pass blockers.

Every team should have 1 at least if not 2.

You may have one interception attempt. But Pass blockers can move into the Thrower's TZ or the Catcher's TZ.

Employ the tackle skill and watch the dodge skill vanish. Either on a blitz or a dodge.

I know I play WE, the last team I played against was Vampires. A Vamp got the ball and went to run off down the pitch, quickly shadowed by my wardancer. And as classics would have it on the TDZ, after making 4 dodge rolls, he rolled a 1 and looked up and said that's ok I've got dodge... I smiled back and said no you don't -tackle.

Force the Elves to dodge through your lines. You may need to beef this up with a bit of standfirm or sidestep.

Note the Kick Skill may help, instead of placing the ball in the back field, that is good for slow teams, place the ball up front. This means the ball is within your reach. Even if the thrower picks it up, it can't get away.

[Master Wang]

Since playing more games and reading this forum and Coach's excellent articles on bbtactics, I've been converted to the 2-1 Grind when I am bashier than my opponent. If you get to defend, let them score unless there is a golden chance to turn them over, such as a dropped pick up near halfway, the brutalize them for the rest of the half scoring on turn 8. If you receive, smash and destroy for 8 turns. Hopefully they won't have a team left for the second half.

[GuppyShark]

Thanks all, I'm really looking forward to seeing how I go at using some of these pointers.

I think the main issues I've had are: I've been kicking to their advantage, failing to pressure the thrower enough, and most importantly letting too many elves through my lines too easily.

[besters]

I wouldn't say let them score, make it as difficult as possible but the only alternative, then hope for some luck with the dice or go for the 2 - 1 grind.

[Digger Goreman]

... and foul, foul, FOUL!

Hoity toities deserve a boot up the bum....

[Smeborg]

GuppyShark - a point you may overlook is that in this situation, the Kick-Off Table is the defender's friend.

Blitz: 1/12 chance
Perfect Defence: 1/12 chance
Rock Thrown at oppo: (say) 1/36 chance

You can add to this:

Adverse Weather (sun or rain): 1/9 chance
Early Turnover (e.g. failed pick-up): (say) 1/36 chance

Each of these things may look like very little, but taken together, they add up to a whopping 1 in 3 chance (or more) that your opponent's first or second turns will be more difficult than he may have anticipated.

[mattgslater]

The kick-off table is the defender's friend sometimes.

Blitz: 1/12 to have an overwhelming edge on the drive. Works better against bash teams, or against speed if the ball goes shallow.

Perfect D: 1/12 to hose whatever specific game your opponent is playing. Works best against bash/slow teams or if either side is running low on men (either to protect/maximize your own men, or to force your opponent to rethink without the manpower to make major adjustments.

High Kick: 1/9 to have a free shot at the ball. Better for slow teams, when down men, or when you want to complete a pass with one specific player.

Quick Snap: 1/9 to ... well, a lot. Better for bash teams, or against light teams, or late in the half.

I'd say that Blitz, Perfect D and Quick Snap are a big deal. If those are all rated equally (a hard claim to defend, but a hard one to attack), and if High Kick is half as good, then it's a wash.

Note also that Pitch Invasion favors light teams and the receiving team, though not as much on average as it does the team with FAME. Throw A Rock favors man-up teams or light teams, as heavy teams usually need their numbers and pay a higher price for a random injury roll. Get the Ref favors man-up teams and heavy teams, which are likely to go man-up.

[Smeborg]

The kick-off table is the defender's friend sometimes.

Matt - the point I was trying to make is that when, like GuppyShark, you are desperate for any advantage, the kick-off table is your friend. Knowing this gives confidence, enabling a coach to "trust his defence".

All the best.

[mattgslater]

Matt - the point I was trying to make is that when, like GuppyShark, you are desperate for any advantage, the kick-off table is your friend. Knowing this gives confidence, enabling a coach to "trust his defence".

1) The underlying statement (random favors the straggler) is true. I hope you're not suggesting that he give up TDs just to go on offense, though forcing a score is a slightly-less-cold comfort when you've got some guys in your KO bin or when the oppo has a Secret Weapon.

2) I agree you should focus on defense! Definitely! Absolutely, positively, without question. Defense builds teams, is more controllable, and is easier to develop skill at (both for coaches and players) than offense.

3) Easier said than done. "Play defense a lot" means "score a lot." "Score a lot" means "Be a winner." So, "If you want to win, play defense a lot" basically translates to "If you want to win, be a winner." Good advice in the sense that if you follow it you'll get what you want, but not so much helpful.

4) The one thing you can control on that front is what you do when you get the ball. In the 2-1 grind, the goal on offense is to protect the ball and move downfield without getting sacked. Other offenses may stall in other ways. But on defense, if you get a quick sack and turnover TD by the end of your turn 4 (maybe 5 if you've got some casualties on him), take it! Then look your opponent in the eye and tell him you're going to do it again, as you set your D back up.

5) Smeborg's post above that one, with the five pieces of advice, is very solid.