Vampire team dev? (was inducement)

[Carnis]

Heya!

I'm currently playing this 8 game old Vampire team in a closed league, my next opponent is a very mean Amazon team:

My team:
4x Vampire
1 Block, Dodge, Tackle, -AV
2 Dodge
3-4 Rookies

8x Thrall
1 Guard
2 Block
3 Dirty Player
4-8 Rookies

3 RR, 1 Apoth, 3 FF, 40k gold in treasury (I can still buy a thrall).

My opponent:
4x Blitzer
1 MB
2 +ST
3 Guard
4th rookie

2x Catcher
1 Block
2 Block

2x Thrower
1 Block, niggle
2 Rookie

6x Liner
1 Block
2 Block
3 Guard
4-6 Rookies

1 Apo, 4 RR, 3 FF

So in total he has 9 Blodge.. ;P.

I got 40k in the bank + I'll get 240k-250k inducements if I don't buy anything giving me access to Wilhelm Chaney. What combination of inducements/purchases would you guys consider? I was thinking about either taking Chaney, or buying a thrall & taking Helmut Wulff + bribe. He still has one game to play, so I expect at least the FF to go up. The downside about helmut is that he fields 14 players, which means helmut doesnt really offer any long-term benefit beyond the one drive he is available.

[Grumbledook]

chainsaw is going to be the most use against AV7 Blodge players. With a bribe as well you could get quite a lot of use out of him as well, or at least force him to score quickly.

don't know how you can cope with vamps and only 3 rerolls tho ;]

[Carnis]

chainsaw is going to be the most use against AV7 Blodge players. With a bribe as well you could get quite a lot of use out of him as well, or at least force him to score quickly.

don't know how you can cope with vamps and only 3 rerolls tho ;]

Just fine thank you! By biting thralls and using dodge-skill rerolls .

[Joemanji]

Don't like a Bribe for chainsaws, as they are so easily killed. I'd get Helmut and a reroll.

[Carnis]

Don't like a Bribe for chainsaws, as they are so easily killed. I'd get Helmut and a reroll.

I primarily use bribe for my DP.. Would still induce helmut, though?

[SillySod]

I'd seriously consider a bribe for your dirty player.

Along with that you want one of:
- re-roll + perma-thrall
- chainsaw + perma-thrall
- merc/igor + perma thrall (numbers wont hurt)
- wizard

I'd probably induce the re-roll and buy the thrall. The wizard would tempt me alot though.

[plasmoid]

Chaney has ST4 frenzy, right?
Could be pretty good against all those blodgers, given your lack of tacklers.

Cheers
Martin

[Podfrey]

Chaney = Uber Boss

If you have enough for him, there is no other choice. Pile him at players near the sideline and ask them if they're still using Dodge!!

[Mootaz]

Especially with Hypnotic Gaze opening up movement possibilities for crowd pushes.

[Carnis]

I'm normally a chaney fan too, but he will have hard time getting chainpushes more than 1-2 times per game. The other thing is, a wizard can net 2-3 MB hits on AV7 + ease up hypnogazing on defence.. That seems like a very hard trade-off.

Especially, as the wiz choice gives me a bribe, too.

He skilled 2 blitzers in his previous game + got a FF increase, so there's 50k more to play with. I assume its piling on on the MB blitzer & guard on the ST blitzer..

[Carnis]

Took Wiz + Bribe. Ran out of players in the game, ended it up drawn 1-1. Lost a block thrall to -AV -> apoed to Bh, then a rookie vampire to kill -> failed regen. Should have taken apoth on the 2nd inducement, an option I seriously did consider. The game went well nonetheless, the wiz took out 2 players in a stack of 5 (1 KO liner, 1 blitzer Niggle/MNG) + knocked the ballcarrier, but my team vanished quicker than his. I did get 3 tries at the ball, but the bounces always went to 3 TZs or a amazon player who caught it with a 5+. Eventually the attempts at the ball ended after a 4-skull 2die block with block.

Got a lucky 1-1 TD after the amazon player scored on T6. He greedied a push into a doubleskull with a RR, when my ballcarrier would have gone out of range for the score with the push. I even had a chance at a win in the last half playing 5v8 very effectively, only failing a 3+ dodge with a dodge-reroll made it a draw in the end. Didnt run out of RRs except on the first half. Lost CAS 7-2 in the end, getting 2 bh from blood lusts.

Now I'll be facing a high elf team, my team now has:

3x vampire
1 Blodge/tackle
2 Dodge (3spp to level)
3 Rookie

10x thrall
1 block
2 guard
3 dirty player
4 niggle
5-10 unskilled

20k in bank, 3 rr 1180k total value.

Next oppo is high elves with 11 players and 1580k value.

1 blodge surehands catcher
2 niggle catcher

1 dodge leap strip blitzer - niggled
2 dodge tackle blitzer -MA

6x lineman
2x loner
wrestle
guard
frenzy/block

1x thrower
Leader/+AG/+AV/Dodge

So what would you guys do with 400-440k? Realistically only 400k, as I have no spare cash to use to houserule petty cash..

[Carnis]

I'll be inducing chaney again I guess, but what about the remaining 150k? Bribe + babe or just the wizard? I could induce Lord Drakenborg too..

[Ullis]

I don't think Drakenborg is a good idea against high elves. Chaney will probably prove better value. A wizard is always nice, no matter what, but babes are pretty good value for vamps too. Hard choices. How about some Dirty Tricks cards?

[Carnis]

Played the HE game and a Nurgle game following that. Won both 2-1 the first one and 3-1 the second, leading the league now.

Got only 330k inducements vs the HE so it ended up being a nobrainer to not take chaney. Ended up with wizard + bribe + babe. Won the game 2-1, largely due to him being unlucky with his strip blitzer, who 1'd a GFI twice ending up KOd the first time and killed the second time. He had wasted the apo on saving the same niggled strip blitzer from the wizard's fireball in an earlier drive.

Blodge/Tackle vampire was fantastic, but the game was decided by a pass to a lone block/thrall who then ran into "safety". The opponent got a blitz in, but failed the 2nd gfi without reroll available giving me a 2-1 win.

The 2nd game was against the league's highest TR team a nurgle team with about 2.1m value. Got 990k. Induced drakeborg + chaney + 2 apoths + wizard to bring myself up from 11 players to 13. Scored twice in defence, him being unable to down the blodge vampire with a sequence of 1 or 2die blocks. Scored 3-0 on my own offence then conceded a relatively easy TD by failing 2+ wizard on his scorer + getting stuck on ST4 tentacles trying to blitz his passer. Had a shot at 4-1 by passing to chaney but it wasnt meant to be..

The team now has:

1 Blodge/tackle - AV vampire
2x Dodge vampire 14 & 10 spp

1 guard thrall
1 block thrall
1 dirty player thrall
2 injured thralls (niggle, -AV) 0 spp on them
1 thrall who gained a double-4 at 10 spp - considering guard.
4 thralls with 0 skills between 0-5 SPP

The league favours high tr teams, because there are no inducements in houseruled the finals/semis. So I'd ideally want a 5th vampire eventually.. Only have 3 currently and 70k gold.

Next match is against rookie chaos, who has 11 players and an inexperienced coach. He'll get 220k inducements against me, though.

I'm still wondering about the 3rd skillpicks of vampires.

I now have the one blodge/tackle at 45 SPP, probably getting MB just to annoy high elves and amazons. The other vamps are getting dodge, then block. As skill #3 on the 2nd vamp to get it I'll take tackle, because it has been extremely powerful and losing the only tackle would be really painful. After that I'm kind of open about it.. What should the other vamps get?

I'd like to have frenzy and some pro vamps to improve my hypno gaze odds & reduce my bloodlust odds. A surehands vamp to counter strip would be great too. Just too few skillpicks, any idea what and how to prioritize ? Thrall doubles I've taken guard so far, but seems unlikely that any guard thralls would survive to skill #2 to really become powerful.

[Carnis]

Necromancing my own old thread. The team has developed a bit now. V# is for vampire/number, T# is for thrall/number (stand for SPP).

V1: Dodge/Block/Tackle/-AV (45)
V2: Dodge/Block (23)
V3: Dodge (6)
V4: Dodge/Block (23)
T5: -AG (0)
T6: (5)
T7: Block (6)
T8: Niggled (0)
T9: (1)
T10: Guard (6)
T11: Wrestle (7)
T12: Guard (10)
T13: Wrestle/Dirty Player/-MA (16)
T14: Block (11)
T15: (0)
T16: (0)

FF7, RR3, Apoth, Value 1460k (#5 and #12 players missing next game)

I'm considering development paths for the next season. Now I've been taking guard as thrall doubles, keeping one guy as the dirty player and mixing the rest up with block & wrestle. Due to the mobility & survival problems of the thralls though I seem to be getting very little mileage out of guard-doubles. Mostly I'd be better off with dodge for mobility and dodge for survival. Anyone tried a mass-dodge thralls in a vampire team?

Currently I have no money for extra players, but I plan to sack the niggled player and eventually the -AG one if the LOS does not kill him. Also plan on keeping a 15man roster to induce a star sometimes..

Due to the high number of AV6 players (elven catchers with -AV) and low AV teams in the league I've decided to build a killer-vampire out of my #1 vampire. He will be getting MB/Piling on as his next skills at 51 and 76 SPP. At the very theoretical 176 he would probably get jugs/jump up or pro.

Now that the team is developing a bit I'm starting to replace my Thralls on the LOS with blodge vampires. I'm also seriously considering getting a 5th vampire.

Now for the other 3 vampires I currently dont have a ready build. I'm strongly in favour of taking PRO on all 3 of them as skill #3 or #4. This would allow me to theoretically run 5 vampires, with pro mitigating some of the bloodlust injuries, improving vampire mobility and improving hypnogaze effectiveness. If I get a stat, I'll ofc take it and change the vampire's plan accordinly, but currently all my vamps are identical (except the killer one, who has -AV).

Picking PRO will mean I'll only have a reasonable chance at getting one skill besides Block/Dodge/Pro which I deem mostly mandatory in a 3RR team. For the remaining skillchoices on the 3-4 vampires I'm considering:

Side Step (Obvious)

Guard (vs STR teams/help keep thralls alive)

Jump Up (at MA6, vampires with blodge/pro/JU are pretty brutal hypnogaze machines.. They can also block if they have nothing better to do.. if you then fail the bloodlust no problem just change your action to move and you get to bite nonetheless..)

1 Sure Hands (against strip ball)

1 Frenzy (Surfs with hypnogaze, improved blocking)

Tackle (against dodge, but PRO is quite good at blocking blodgers all on its own, tackle cancels the opponents RR and adds even more security though)

Mighty Blow (damage, but less appealing in a vampire team as they lose bashing anyway and I'm already building a killer).

Sure Feet (Mobility, but pro already gives me a semi reliable gfi reroll)

Catch (A receiver is nice, but sacrificing a full vampire for this seems overkill)

So:

1) Is dodge really the better thrall double?
2) Can I go 5 vampire with a pro-team or will my thralls just melt away?
3) What would be the most important vampire builds after the tackler/killer & massblodge?