Wardancer question

[Master Wang]

This is the team http://www.stuntyleeg.com/index.php?sec ... bj_id=1332

Two games, two wins, to dead linemen. Aside from the deaths the skilling has gone well: a Guard lineman, a kicker, a lineman with Dodge, and both Dancers skilled. They skilled in the same game and one got +AG, the other a normal roll. I was going to go Strip Ball on one (not a skill I like, but I understand its usefulness) and Frenzy on the other. The question is, which to develop the +AG guy into: strip baller or frenzier? He'll 2+ leap into cages, with Strip Ball he's going to knock a lot of balls loose, so Frenzy to the other guy? Or give the +AG one Frenzy when he hits 16spps, leap over the line and blitz wingers into the crowd? Or give him something else?

I expect a few cries of "cheese on cheese", but I'm not convinced by Wood Elves at all. Both my victories have been down to opponent error more than anything, and those linemen aren't cheap.

As an aside, what to do with my cash? It's perpetual, so how about a third reroll?

[Carnis]

They skilled in the same game and one got +AG, the other a normal roll. I was going to go Strip Ball on one (not a skill I like, but I understand its usefulness) and Frenzy on the other. The question is, which to develop the +AG guy into: strip baller or frenzier? He'll 2+ leap into cages, with Strip Ball he's going to knock a lot of balls loose, so Frenzy to the other guy? Or give the +AG one Frenzy when he hits 16spps, leap over the line and blitz wingers into the crowd? Or give him something else?

I expect a few cries of "cheese on cheese", but I'm not convinced by Wood Elves at all.

+AG should take frenzy. Strip ball is ok, but not great on the non+AG one. I personally much prefer reliable plays like surfs, blodge/SS tagging etc.

And woodies are cheesy, at least if you can avoid playing a lot of dwarf/norse/orc opponents in a row.

[Drool_bucket]

I agree, +1 AG and Frenzy lets him move around the pitch "with the greatest of ease." Coupled with an 8 MV many players won't be safe near the sidelines, even if there are allies between them and this WD. I would look for Sidestep on the next skill and run with him till your opponents finally kill him.

[Master Wang]

I like tagging players, too. It's worked a treat with my Pro-Elves, but those dancers are expensive and so far Blodge hasn't helped them much - luckily the worst they've experienced so far is being KO'ed. Still, Sidestep on the one with a regular skill, then seeing what happens when he gets to 16 spps won't hurt.

I'm trying to develop my linemen before getting any catchers, even though the extra movement would be nice to make drives go by a little quicker and reduce the damage I'm taking. Especially as at the rate my linemen are going, they might all be dead in a few more matches. With that in mind, I can either save my 110K or get a re-roll. Thoughts?

[Drool_bucket]

I am a fan of a Thrower on a WE team early.

First he gets Leader ASAP, another re-roll is always helpful

Plus, he distributes the ball better because of Pass. You won't need the team re-roll for his toss, instead you can save it for the Catch or the Dodge you might need to make.

What I do is place the Thrower deep enough and centered that the opponent won't reach him, even if they work at it, on their turn. I then use two Line elfs spread out to collect the ball and toss it to the Thrower. This gets them the 1 SPP, so if they get the MVP they skill. Or in your case, you have a 5SPP guy you'll wanna get the completion for.

Then by flooding the field with potential receivers, between a pass and a hand off you score easily. Its the one luxury I grant myself on offense, a Thrower.

I agree that taking the time to develop your line elfs prior to getting catchers is a solid idea. Catchers are the easy button for WE, but also detract from the team overall, IMO, by slowing advancements for the line elfs, who can be just awesome after a few rolls.

[Smurf]

I've played 13 games and lost 1 (damn High Elves - it was really close).

I swear by a thrower, infact 2. 1 offensive (perfect passer etc) and other is defensive (expects to get into TZs and throw balls etc).

What I don't understand is buying of rerolls... a false economy in the WE play book IMO.

Wardancers - dodge (reroll)
Catchers - dodge and catch (reroll x 2)
Thrower - Pass (reroll)

Catchers are great for WE, nice pass blocker or mr speedy (sprint surefeet).

Moreover I think the WE game is about total control. Don't allow things to get away from you. Therefore my Wardancers have:

Dodge Block Leap Tackle Sidestep AV+1
Dodge Block Leap Tackle Sidestep Shadowing

IMO Frenzy just gets them into trouble. By and large no one wants to go near my Wardancers.

Yes TRR will be useful later on but with my TV I am reluctant to take one

I've recently lost 3 players and my star catcher is MNG (Catch Dodge Pass Block Leap)

Thrower Pass AG+1 Accurate Strong Arm
Thrower Pass Kick Strong Arm

I need to rebuild my line. I have a few with wrestle, dauntless but recently lost a 'blodger'.

But if you think Frenzy works, go for it.

[Master Wang]

My thoughts behind a re-roll are that the league is perpetual so I might as well get it while I can, i.e. before I hit spiraling expenses. Also, in the (only) two games I've had so far, the re-rolls have gone very fast - usually on re-rolling hits on the opposition's ball carrier, or on a leap before doing that hitting. I see the point about the positional players having built in re-rolls through skills, but I'm thinking mainly about re-rolling key blocks.

One point above that I do agree with is taking the thrower. I regret not taking one from the start, even though I haven't had a problem without him yet. I have thrown a few re-roll-less short passes, through necessity rather than choice. I've just been lucky and not dropped any yet. The problem is I feel the money might be better spent else where, or simply saved. Buying a thrower when I'll have two journeyman means he'll be playing both offense and defense and have a big target on him.

Anyway, still umming and ahhing.

[mubo]

I think Strip ball for the +AG guy, and Frenzy for the other.
The Stripballer will be leaping more than the frenzy guy, so the AG more useful.

[Purplegoo]

I suppose it's a classic case of following your own path! You'll (I doubt) ever get much agreement from the masses.

For me, in a perpetual league situation, hoarding the RRs at low TV and developing Linemen early is the classic way of going about things. I might have even started with three RRs! Elves in a perpetual situation, for me, build the Linos early, and as they die off, quick to skill Catchers come in and fill that gap, eventually giving a fully rounded team at high TV. So yes, I'd buy the third RR now, and think Catchers next. As a personal thing, the Thrower would be the last thing I ever thought of taking when I had nothing else to buy and money to burn; and even then, he's a Lineman with the Pass skill. If you develop a dedicated Passer, he steals all the spps from players that need them and is just rubbish when you've not got the ball.

Skills wise; +AG for me becomes the Stripper, he's your weapon. With AG5 there is pretty much no ball he can't get to on a 2+. If nothing else he's the major distraction your team possesses. If you must get a Frenzy guy, he's the other WD, but it's not a skill I like on them.

Rerolls are as vital for a Woodie team as any other. If you don't have any, those turns where something goes wrong early and your entire team is engaged become defining. Spending a RR so you can get 5 Linemen out of TZs can be as big as RRing a Strip in certain situations.

Good luck, and ignore the cheese mongers.

[mattgslater]

I like Strip on the +AG guy. I'd build the other one for Frenzy, but I'd probably take Sidestep on that guy first, because the guy is 140k/AV7 and really wants another survival skill.

I like Wood Elf Throwers. I see Pgoo's concerns that a dedicated Thrower eats into your Comps, but I don't agree that it has to be that way. I think having one guy with Pass and Safe Throw or Accurate really helps you get the ball into a downfield cage, which makes a big difference in controlling tempo on offense. Start him out in centerfield, just out of marking range, get the ball with somebody else, and QP to him, before or after (or instead of) moving him to a more convenient, equally safe spot. Then build a play into the opposing backfield; since the ball is deep in your half and the cage is in the other half, the defense has to make some decisions about who rushes and who drops into coverage. Then riff off what your opponent does to stall just long enough to force a hurry-up offense (how long that is depends on your opponent's MA and the casualty picture), passing into the downfield cage (or to a player who can get there) when it gets too hot. It's not like you can't do this without a Thrower, but it's a lot easier when the guy who drops back with the ball can lob a SP or LP, rather than having to get into QP range.

That said, I'd still start one Catcher with my two WDs, and buy the Thrower later. 1x TRR scares me. Wardancers are the BPA, so you gotta max out. That leaves 30k for player upgrades, which means one Thrower or one Catcher. Both are good, but the Catcher is slightly better.

[cyagen]

Retire the team and go play BB like a man, play Orks

I'm for strip ball as Frenzy can force you into bad spots.

[juck101]

Frenzy and Guard in my mind are stand out skills that will make coaches target you.

One isolated frenzy in a av7 team is asking for a kicking, so I would advise against it. The way I play woodies the wardancers really are a powerful piece and players target them anyway. I tend to want both WDs with sidestep pretty quick. Saying that I tend to pick up stripball first to scare people - just depends the league make up if its worth getting early. Also depends if I can get kick fast I will tend to want stripball asap also as a combo.

Your ag5 WD is a game winning figure. I would go survival next skill, and therefore take sidestep. With blodge sidestep hes tough enough. I would try to always score with the other WD if you can, because the ag5 one will be to good to ignore. So I would advise WD2 gets sidestep first, then tackle because they make good blitzers (maybe best in game).

WD2 is the figure you need to work on so that is the ag5 figure is out of the game you can still carry on. I would expect the ag5 player to be targeted a lot, so WD2 needs to stand alone for the blitzing duty of the team.

Ag5 guy hopefully lives to get sidestep and if its still alive, go stripball then tackle and see how you get on.