Slann Catchers - Doubles

[Ferne]

Hi

Having just started a Slann team in a league with experienced teams (35-45 matches), i have enjoyed reading about different views on Slann tactics and developement. My starting roster is 2xB, 2xC, 7xL, 4RR. Lino skill up will be: one with kick, one with strip ball and wrestle on the rest except one with block/frenzy for that occasionally leaping frenzy blitz. B's and C's will start with block as teams in my league has got tackle galore and has thereby reduced the value of dodge. Though not quite sure I'm looking to purchase apo, catcher, blitzer, krox in that order..

But my biggest doubt however is what skill to choose if i roll doubles on catchers. I do understand the idea of mobile guard units for cage-breaking, though pass would be nice combined with sure hands and KOR for leaping in and picking up and passing loose balls. However HMP combined with sure hands would do the job as well. But maybe NOS is the most versatile skill to choose as it is usefull for both passing, recieving and interception.

Any thoughts?

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Guard, also I would recommend starting with a kroxigor and quite possibly an apothecary because slann get beaten up a lot.

[duttydave]

+1 for Guard.

[Joemanji]

Guard. Guard. Guard.

[MeatLoafX]

Guard is the safest choice, though a Slann Catcher who plays close to your opponent isn't long for this world. I've found that my catchers often have huge targets on their heads and will be blitzed almost every time.

However, the ability to lend an assist almost anywhere on a 2 is great. I did pass it up as a first skill one time and think I made a mistake. A catcher with no defensive skills, however, even with guard was too much of a risk on a new team.

I will suggest that you consider HMP, however. I've seen is used very, very effectively on a Slann team. Your linefrogs knock the ball free and your HMP guy jumps in, grabs the ball and slings it away. With DC catchers, you may even be able to avoid a turnover. However, punting the ball away with Slann is one of the best ways to control the game.

I'd likely still go guard, but depending on my mood, I may take HMP.

[Jumping Jacks]

Having coached a Slaan team for a while myself, I've had occasions to think about this connundrum. A catcher is a big target, a guarding catcher is the guy that's going to suffer for the rest of his life, which will not be long. In a way it depends on whether or not you're OK with having that catcher get punched to the ground on every turn or not.

The way I see it, it all depends on how far into their developments your catchers are.

If you've somehow managed to build them into blodging/wrodging beauties with added sidestep, I'd take guard. They're already wearing gigantic "KICK ME" signs on their shirts by that point, so adding flashing neon lights on those signs won't change too much.
If your catcher is within his first or second skill, go for the Hail Mary Pass. If you already have 3 other catchers, chances are this guy is going to be a wonderful ball retriever and your opponent will be too busy trying to go to where you threw (and quite possible caught) the ball to punch him too hard. The downside is he will probably gain SPP much more slowly.

In short, my advice is to play it safe unless the catcher is most certainly going to suffer a series of unfortunate events anyways.

[Gaixo]

My just-retired slann team had 3 blodging catchers with guard. 2 of those with sidestep and the other with ST 3. Combined with my AG4 block/tackle/strip ball lineman, there were very few cages they couldn't break.

I can't see trading any of that for HMP, even if the "punt" does sounds attractive. Wish I'd thought of that while my team was still active.

[Joemanji]

Guard is the best skill for a Slann Catcher by a mile. Giving him a worse skill in the hope that opposing coaches won't want to kill him as much is silly IMO. Why take skills at all? If you decline the Improvement roll altogether your opponents will want to kill him even less.

Guard is best because Slann exist to cage break. The cage break is everything. It is back to front thinking planning to scoop the ball if you haven't invested in actually knocking down the ball carrier.

The reason Guard is best is because as teams skill up, the weight of those added skills favours defending against leaping into a cage over doing the leaping into a cage.

- No skills either side: A naked Slann lino leaps into the cage and knocks down the ball for no turnover 11% of the time.
- Wrestle+Tackle Slann vs Block carrier & a Guarder you can't avoid does it 8% of the time.
- This is favourable to the Slann ... often you'll invest in Strip Ball only to have it negated by Sure Hands.

But Guard tips the scales back your way, and the 2+ to get it involved is key.

[Insane_Prophet]

The use of Guard is obvious and quite lethal when used correctly by a Slaan team, but it does depend on the context of your team and league. In a lethal league I can't see your Catcher with Guard surviving long if you can't protect him. While I agree with Joe that you shouldn't avoid taking good skills for fear of making your pieces targets, I think you do need to make sure you can protect your valuable pieces.

And I'd definitely want HMP pass on at least one of my catchers. It's the only way the ball can be thrown the entire length of the pitch and that just opens up new options for the team.

If all the cage teams in your league are bloated up on Guard a single Guard Catcher won't do you much good. If there's hardly any Guard he'll be a real game changer, letting you rip cages open.

Oh and:

Why take skills at all? If you decline the Improvement roll altogether your opponents will want to kill him even less.

I think it's against the rules to decline improvement rolls anyway.

[MeatLoafX]

Guard is the best skill for a Slann Catcher by a mile. Giving him a worse skill in the hope that opposing coaches won't want to kill him as much is silly IMO. Why take skills at all? If you decline the Improvement roll altogether your opponents will want to kill him even less.

Hehe... I know what you mean. However, just starting out, taking guard on a catcher with nothing else, I can see that guy being pummeled the very first time they break the cage. Jump in, other lino jumps in, ball comes free and then the pain begins. I don't pass up skills because I'm afraid of contact, but with no defensive skills to start and guard on a Slann team often means the guarder is literally surrounded by opponents... it just seems like a recipe for problems. Of course, the same goes for a skill like HMP - it won't help you live. Which is why I passed my first doubles on my first Slann catcher to take dodge.

[Gaixo]

Maybe (probably) my league isn't very competitive, but it's hard to imagine you couldn't keep an AG4 player safe long enough to get a second skill.

[Joemanji]

However, just starting out, taking guard on a catcher with nothing else, I can see that guy being pummeled the very first time they break the cage. Jump in, other lino jumps in, ball comes free and then the pain begins. I don't pass up skills because I'm afraid of contact, but with no defensive skills to start and guard on a Slann team often means the guarder is literally surrounded by opponents... it just seems like a recipe for problems.

He'll probably go down, sure. But assuming that, he has an 83% chance of staying on the pitch and a 98% chance of not suffering a permanent injury. If you get the ball and maybe win the game because of it, thems good odds for me. If you never risk your players, you have as good as lost anyway ...

[Grumbledook]

fairly sure you can get the ball the length of the pitch by running fowards, hand off, running fowards, pass, running fowards

wonder if i'm the only person who has never taken hail mary once in over 16 years of playing the game

I might take it on a bomber now though, but not for passing reasons ;]

I pretty much agree with what joe has said as well

[Joemanji]

... and if you just want the ball passed forwards (i.e. to an open square) then running forwards and making a 3+ roll to not fumble a long pass is pretty viable. Never taken HMP either in 16 years Jon.

[Greyhound]

Never took it BUT I didn't have catchers with diving catch.
I considered it once on a skink with no intent to use it but just to keep my opponent guessing