Talk Fantasy Football

Hi all,
Slup has written this LRB6 playbook for the undead.
Any undead coaches got any comments?

Dead man walking
Despite the flashier Necromantic or the sheer power of ST5 of the Khemri nothing beats playing old school Undead. They are strong, versatile, fast and flexible, able to play most roles and only lacking in the passing area.
Why choose Undead:
Between TV 100 and 150 there is no better all-round team. You start out with mostly a full roster and wear and tear is minimal thanks to regeneration. With 2 ST5 and 4 MA7 players you can outbash and/or run circles around most opponents. You will not be passing the ball much if at all but you will win a lot.

Normal Tactics: Pick up the ball, force a hole in the defense and let the fast players (Wights and Ghouls) flood through. On defense hit his cage with Mummies and make them force their way towards the ball. Add Zombies to that. Keep your fast players loosely around to exploit weaknesses and prevent him from escaping the Mummies.

Problematic opponents:
Wood Elves. They are just too fast to catch and too slippery to lock down. And at low TV without sure hands and block on the ball carrier you are very vulnerable to an early Strip Ball Wardancer. General tactic is to have the ball in a solid cage with a Guard Mummy at opposite corners and slowly march down the field for a 2-1 grind. That and fouling.
Teams with Claw: When Chaos or Chaos Dwarves begins to field Claw players be afraid. Target those at all costs using all the power you got: a combined force of Mighty Blow, Piling On and Dirty Player.

Starting Roster:
Undead fit perfectly into the 1 mill. GC for a starting team without sacrifice:
• 2 Mummies
• 2 Wights
• 3 Ghouls
• 4 Zombies (alternatively 3 Zombies + 1 Skeleton)
• 3 Rerolls
Undead do not have an apothecary, relying on regeneration instead. This is normally enough, but when the opportunity presents itself take an Igor as first inducement to protect against freak accidents on mummies and Wights. And when you eventually hoard some cash (most undead teams will hoard large amounts of cash) buy one against bashy and/or claw-heavy teams. A new Wight or Mummy will take forever to develop.

Player positions:
Mummies:
These are the backbone of your team. ST5 and mighty blow without negatraits makes for a mighty force. And you even get two of these monsters.
Skills:
Regular: Guard, Stand Firm, Grab. Ignore Piling On, a Mummy is worth more standing.
Anytables: BLOCK
Stat increases: Take ST+, scrap AG+, choose block on double 5 and in most cases guard or stand firm is more valuable than MA+ or AV+
Tactics:
Always keep them close to the center, the action and each other. They work as a team each assisting each other. Assisting a ST5 you say? Yes because you want them to make 3d blocks all the time. This reduces turnovers and makes for more knockdowns. Unless you really need to do something special always start your turns with some mummy action 3d blocks and don’t be afraid to rerolls those 3d blocks if you don’t knock the opponent down. Note: it is my experience that when a Mummy is lying on its back, the most sensible option is normally just to stand him back up and nothing else. Those Mummy GFI’s are a sure way to a double 1.

Wights:
Strikers and punishers, they hit and hit hard.
Skills:
Regular: Guard, Mighty Blow, Piling On, Frenzy, Tackle (or anything else aggressive)
Anytables: Dodge or Side Step unless you prefer something aggressive.
Stats: Take all, I prefer MA+ over AV+, speed kills and the opponent usually targets your ghouls instead.
Tactics:
When you need to hit something that leaves your player vulnerable choose a Wight. Until your Ghouls get Block this is your most stable blocker. Until a Wight gets Mighty Blow it will skill up very slowly so make them score a TD when the opportunity presents itself. They are perfectly able to do so.

Ghouls:
Swiss army knives. Doing anything the rest of the team is unable to do. On a Necromantic team these usually fade in comparison to the werewolves, but on an Undead team they truly shine.
Skills:
Regular: 3 with Block + 1 with wrestle, after that see tactics
Anytables: Guard
Stat Increases: Take all, I prefer MA+ over AV+, speed kills.
Tactics:
Key word: be flexible. Your ghouls are at one time sackers, ball handlers, strikers, catchers and any other role that most teams have as a specific position. I usually make 4 different Ghouls. A sacker with wrestle and tackle, A ball carrier with block and sure hands, one with block, diving tackle and side step and a side line threat with block and frenzy. Adapt all this to anytables and stat increases. Your ghouls will hog SPP like there is no tomorrow so spread some love to the Wights. Accept the fact that Ghouls die and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. They are normally quite safe with ST3, block and dodge but they will die, taking all their SPP with them. Luckily you will have plenty of cash. A normal Undead team will have 4 ghouls in separate steps of development.

Zombies:
Cheap, resilient roadblocks. And they even come free some times. If there ever was a truly expendable player, this is the one. Don’t expect much of them in your own turns but enjoy your opponent cursing them to hell in his.
Skills:
Regular: Block and if you ever get a Zombie with 2 skills pick whatever you like. A Dirty Player or 2 is also handy.
Anytable: Guard and keep it close to the Mummies.
Stat Increases: Decide between ST+ and Guard, scrap all other.
Tactics:
Use Zombies for line fodder against bashy teams, to tie up opponents, to get in the way, to foul, to protect your Ghouls. It is quite funny to see the opponent’s wild animal using 5 turns in a row blocking the same zombie which just get back on his feet each turn. Never care for a Zombie’s wellbeing, just use and abuse them. Make a smile when you stick one next to a Claw, Mighty Blow, Piling On Chaos Warrior knowing that he will not be hitting your Mummy the next turn. If you find yourself running low on Zombies (which hurts the rest of the team) just kill an opponent and get a new one for free right away.
Keep enough on your team so that you don't run out but leave room for a Star Player.

Skeletons:
Zombies, just different
Skills:
Regular: Dirty Player, Wrestle, Fend.
Anytables: Sneaky Git if it has Dirty Player, Dodge if it has Wrestle, as regular otherwise.
Stat Increases: Keep ST+, keep MA+ if it has Wrestle, scrap all other.
Tactics:
It is a matter of debate whether you are going to have Skeletons or not. If you choose to (many don’t), there are 2 uses for them.
First is a fouler with Dirty Player. Since they are faster than Zombies they can foul more targets.
Second is an added fast player with Wrestle and Fend.
Never take more than 2 on the team and take only 1 on the field at a time as not to leave your team too vulnerable.

A decent overview but not a huge amount of detail really.

I think the mummy advice is terrible, MA4 is great on a mummy and far more useful than guard and certainly better than sucky Stand Firm if you roll 6+4.

Keeping both mummies together is a bad idea as well since it's really easy to neutralise them both.

I'm not sure about the offensive tactics either as it looks like splitting your team and undead usually want to play the slow grind at low TV. It makes more sense once the bashy teams get all block and mass guard as you'll get horribly outclassed in the blocking stakes.

Diving tackle on zombies on doubles is great vs agile teams (guard is usually the better choice mind) as well since ghouls generally don't want to be next to opposing players if they can avoid it.

I mostly agree with Slup and mostly disagree with Spubbba (especially about Mummies; Stand Firm rocks if you know how to use it, and is a much better MA3 mitigator than MA4, at least without Break Tackle, which this team doesn't need). But I see where Spubbba is coming from, and he's right about the lack of detail. I think this is the kind of team that merits multiple playbooks, because there are multiple styles. Different coaches value Ghouls differently, use Wights differently or improve Mummies differently. There are two very different schools of thought on Skeletons vs. Zombies: some say all Z, all the time, and some like to run one or two Skels along with 3-4 Zs.

I think, in particular, there are several ways to build your 0-2 Wights. Retrieving runner, hard-hitting safety, mobile Guard flanker/cager, even dedicated passer with the right improvements. Me, I like to sell out on core skills, so unless I get +AG or something, I like to grind with 'em, either getting Guard or MB depending on the league balance, with Stand Firm as a universal #2.

I like to build a Ghoul with Wrestle and Frenzy, and give Stand Firm and Grab to my #2 Mummy (#1 goes Guard, then Stand Firm, to play nose; he migrates to end once he gets Stand Firm and I get a Guard Zombie). That forces most speed defenses to set their backfield an extra square back to avoid free backfield blocks off the Grab. That, in turn, moves the blitz range one square downfield, making it harder to pressure the ball before the cage forms. Sometimes it takes awhile to do this, because Mummy improvement is semi-random.

The extra MA on a Skeleton makes them a better defensive player when all your Ghouls are trying to score, as a Zombie doing the same thing might as well be a lamp post you hope the catchers will run blindly into. The AV7 certainly hurts them, as I find more Skeletons in my injury boxes than anything else, but they're cheap, they're a decent piece, and you can always raise free Zombies, but never free Skeletons.

Sure Hands on a Wight makes them a great ball carrier (one of the six ways), being relatively speedy and with Block. A double would then give them something like Pass and then boom, instant reliable passing game, particularly as they can get Strong Arm on a regular roll after, beyond which you're praying to the Necromancer for an AG+ or another double for Accurate.

Failing that, Wights can be all Guard, all the time, with Tackle, Sidestep, Fend, etc to make them perfect cage corners, as they're the only tough thing that can keep up with the Ghouls if you need to break downfield first. Then again they can go ball hunting, with Strip Ball and Frenzy quite happily, or sideline patrolling with Stand Firm and Frenzy, with Grab always being fun for crowd surfing too.

Improve Ghouls and Wights as fast as you can!

I wouldn't bother with Side Step on a Wight, except on second or later doubles. That's what Ghouls are for. Dodge!

Ghoul #1: Sidestep, Block, Catch
Ghoul #2: Wrestle, Frenzy, Tackle
Ghoul #3: Sure Hands, Block, Sidestep
Ghoul #4: Wrestle, Tackle, Sidestep

Doubles changes everything. Lots of great options.
* Guard: Mobile Guard is always cool, and though the team has good ST, it lacks for S access.
* Mighty Blow: You start with two, and can get two more quickly. I once had an Undead team that had two Ghouls double in the first game, then skilled both Wights in the second for 6x Mighty Blow. I only played 6 games with them, but man they were nasty.
* Pass: Man, it's nice having a Thrower, and a Ghoul at 16 SPP with Pass and SH is a good one.

A +AG Ghoul or Wight is a game-breaker. You can use him in an elfy "ace" formation, with just a four-man backfield. Don't bother with Sure Hands on AG4; I quite like Pro on that player, as he makes a great many different types of die rolls, most of them "easy." Strong Arm at #3, and you have a seriously-above-average passing fullback. The goal is to not let your opponent catch him with the ball, and not to have to pick up with him, so as to keep the improvements rolling in.

That's totally critical, by the way. Ghouls and Wights suffer a whole lot of damage, and to keep quality players, you're constantly having to bring guys up. Every game you play is really two games: you're playing this one, and preparing for two or three games down the line. If you have a guy who's too valuable to lose, use him in a way that doesn't get him hit much, and don't score with him much so whatever eggs you add to that basket were just the free ones.

Much of that guide is opinion presented as fact, mainly this:

plasmoid wrote: Dead man walking
Despite the flashier Necromantic or the sheer power of ST5 of the Khemri nothing beats playing old school Undead. They are strong, versatile, fast and flexible, able to play most roles and only lacking in the passing area.
Why choose Undead:
Between TV 100 and 150 there is no better all-round team. You start out with mostly a full roster and wear and tear is minimal thanks to regeneration. With 2 ST5 and 4 MA7 players you can outbash and/or run circles around most opponents. You will not be passing the ball much if at all but you will win a lot.

In a player guide, the writer's personal opinions should be noted as such, ie: "In my opinion, Undead are one of the strongest, most flexible and versatile teams..."

Harry Buddha Palm wrote: In a player guide, the writer's personal opinions should be noted as such, ie: "In my opinion, Undead are one of the strongest, most flexible and versatile teams..."

Wouldn't that be a bit redundant? By it's very nature, a playbook is a compilation of a coach's personal opinions.

Hi all,
if there are no more comments, then I figure Slup's undead playbook is just about ready.
Thanks all
Martin

I have one comment.

I would give a wight jump up on doubles.

I guess I'm late, but +MA definedly rocks on mummies. ST5, MA5, BT mummies really make plays.

Skeletons have a new role in LRB6, which is definedly no small thing either. Skeletons enable undead to stay competetive against Claw spamming teams at higher TV. There's no better counter to MB/PO/Claw, than having cheap AV7 thick skull players with wrestle. Also the same players make ideal foulers, I've had some degree of trouble using a normally nobrainer MB/Claw/PO/Block/Tackle plan against a skeleton spamming UD.

Normal UD teams field 2 mummies, 2 wights, 2-4 ghouls so just having 4-6 skellies in the rosters will do the "trick". Obviously skeletons are also nice against faster teams, where zombies might not keep up. Ofc zombies still remain the defaultpick liner, but with the advent of claw skeletons have become a significantly more competitive option. With their low cost & thick skull+regen they are also effectively immune to fouling.

Carnis wrote:With their low cost & thick skull+regen they [Skeletons] are also effectively immune to fouling.

I would say the presence of Mummies and Ghouls makes Skellies essentially immune to fouls, as who in their right mind would try and get a downed Skeleton off the pitch when there are far juicer targets?

Ulthuan_Express wrote:

Carnis wrote:With their low cost & thick skull+regen they [Skeletons] are also effectively immune to fouling.

I would say the presence of Mummies and Ghouls makes Skellies essentially immune to fouls, as who in their right mind would try and get a downed Skeleton off the pitch when there are far juicer targets?

A player playing the on pitch numbers, and having no mummy or ghoul in the turf within foul range?

I foul a lot, even zombies sometimes get their share .

Hey Carnis,
just how did MA+ become MA++ and Break Tackle

Nice contirbution here (although, more details would be nice, especially for the tactics section).

I have a specific question : how would you rate Hail Mary Pass for a Ghoul (especially as an early pick) ?

I'm prety new to Undead, and once i recover the ball deep in my half (thanks to a nice defense, or after a screwed up offence), i always have some trouble to keep it, and i often end up loosing the ball (again) and being scored anyway.

That's why i'm considering some passing options, but i'm not really into Pass/Accurate, since it calls for Catch/Diving Catch on the other Ghouls to be useful (and i have some other plans for them right now). On the other hand, HMP seems nice, as you can use it effectively without dedicated receivers (sure 1-2 Diving Catch will make it more useful, but it's not a top priority).

Rhyoth wrote:I have a specific question : how would you rate Hail Mary Pass for a Ghoul (especially as an early pick) ?

Nerves of Steel is probably a better option for an early double, especially if he's the defensive guy to nip in once the ball has been knocked loose for whatever reason. Plus it'll be useful throughout his career on offensive and defensive duties as an all-round skill, rather than the 'oh shi-' launch downfield. The idea of desperately punting it away (whether aimed at a receiver or not) in that situation is an appealing one, to be sure, though.

Of course HMP is greatly useful on offence when you can set up a defensive screen of your opponent's endzone, launching the ball into the gap for you to pick up and score at your leisure (or rather until an AG3 player comes along to grab it!)