Starting a Wood Elf Roster?

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:20 pm

I'm planning on playing the happy tree-huggers next season and was wondering what my starting line up would be. I was planning on developing the team to focus on passing because I haven't done that in a while. Here's a couple of starting squads I thought of:
1) 1 wardancer
1 thrower
9 line Elves
2 RR
6 FF
2) 1 wardancer
1 thrower
2 catchers
7 line elves
1 RR
7 FF
Or the standard
3) 1 Wardancer
10 line elves
2 RR
8 FF
I was leaning more towards option 1 to get the thrower out fast an let him rack up SPPs early and then invest in some catchers after a few games. With 9 Line elves, I'd have plenty of recivers and I could still field a decent defence where as starting with catchers would leave me with 2 players that aren't very useful on D.
Any other suggestions would be very helpful

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:44 pm

How about the following?

11 line-elves
2 re-rolls
apothecary
8 FF

Without an apothecary, I suspect you will be beginning your second match without at least one of your position players. It's precisely this fact that makes me just a little reticent about playing woodies.

Others will probably have better suggestions than mine, but that apothecary is quite important!

Cheers,
Martyn

Xynok · Post by **Xynok** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:46 pm

Like all Elf teams, I would start with Linemen across the board, and an Apothecary:

11 x Lineman
2 x RR
1 x Apothecary
8 FF

7 Armor = need an Apothercary. Also, your RRs are cheap, and your AG4 should keep the need for them limited. The problem with startimg with a Wardancer is that he WILL hog your SPPs, and you don't need a player like that to get much better than he already IS...there is a reason he is so expensive. Down the road, you need skilled Lineman to be effective on defense...the more the better. You hurt your chances of getting them if you begin with Players who are going to hog your SPPs, not to mention no Apothecary.

Sure, lack of Block will be a nuisance from time to time, but this is NEVER the strength of Elves anyways; use what you HAVE...AGILITY!

If you can keep your Players alive (Apothecary = necessary), with the 8FF, you will be able to afford a Wardancer soon enough, and then add a Catcher. After 6 or so games, you should have a lot of skilled Lineman, a Wardancer, at least one Catcher, and possibly a third RR. Considering ALL your players draw from EXACTLY the same skill tables (exception Thrower who also gets Passing), starting with anything other than Lineman for League play honestly makes little sense. The skill positions will come...you want skilled Lineman to back them up and be a force on DEFENSE, the absolute biggest weakness of the team.

That is my experience anyway.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:48 pm

I've played dozens of Woodelf teams and I'm yet to see a better starting lineup than 1 WD, 10 LE, 8 FF, 2 RR.

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:43 pm

I agree with Marcus: 1 WD, 10 LE, 8 FF, & 2 RR.

The WD will help you survive your early games. First purchase, apothecary.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:45 pm

Marcus wrote:I've played dozens of Woodelf teams and I'm yet to see a better starting lineup than 1 WD, 10 LE, 8 FF, 2 RR.

Yep. this line up gets my vote.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 6:26 pm

Just to add my vote as well, although an apothecary is essential starting without a Wardancer may lead you into just as many casualties because of a lack of skills.

You just have to be careful not to let him hog all the SPPs and take a few risks with your linelves.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:07 pm

7 3 4 7 is a nasty statline even without skills. On a starting team I usually have the Wardancer as playmaker, handing off and passing to the lineelves to score.

horekim · Post by **horekim** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:43 pm

Getting a wardancer from the start will make him the main target of your opponent. That will leave more room for your lineelves to pull some stunts they otherwise wouldn't be able to pull. Also, he could very well make the difference between losing and winning in the first games. Team development might be the most important thing in the start, but it's also nice to win some games now and then.

Xynok · Post by **Xynok** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:58 pm

Exactly. The Wardancer WILL be the focus. In other words, especially since you don't have an Apothecary, he will end up dead, Injured, Knocked Out, or Stunned the whole game. Lets examine these:

Dead: If this happens, and without an Apothecary expect it to, you are in trouble. Now you have 10 players, and are out 120K. You'll wind up Freebooting unless you are extremely lucky. That 3rd RR just got exponentially further away.

Injured: Missing next game? Down to 10 Lineman. Again. Glad you have that WD now?

Knocked-Out: WD does a lot of good here. Not.

Stunned: WD makes huge plays when stunned. Not.

Oh wow, your Lineman wind up doing everything anyway. The difference? You have an Apothecary. You need it.

Again, do whatever you feel comfortable with, but you don't need to start with anything other than Linemen. Taking a WD won't necessarily hurt you (though it can via above illustration, and the fact that while you THINK he won't hog SPPs, he will...why have him otherwise? Exactly), but EITHER will having an Apothecary.

horekim · Post by **horekim** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:03 pm

I don't know how you play elves, but I keep them out of action. If my opponent is going for my wardancer with his blitz, fine. He'll find it hard to even knock him over and leave my ball carrier on his feet. I agree that you're facing trouble if he get's killed, but I'm willing to take chances, otherwise I wouldn't play Blood Bowl

Joaquim · Post by **Joaquim** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:07 pm

Actually I would try:
1 WD
1 Catcher
9 Line
1 RR
6 FF
1 Apo

Any elf can throw, but a catcher can score fast....
You have a Apo.. and a WD...
6 FF can look low, but I would expect to win the 1sts matches...

Xynok · Post by **Xynok** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:09 pm

Of course you keep Elves from the fray, thus my topic on why Dodge is superior to Block for them. Still, I feel you are taking an unnecessary risk at Team progression for no reason by taking anything other than Linemen.

I'm not saying you are WRONG to do so, it is simply what I feel comfortable with myself.

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:23 am

I like to start:

1 WarDancer
1 Thrower
9 Line Elves
2 Re-Rolls
6 Fan Factor

I've seen people play woodies that dont start with a Thrower and rate him as a low priority purchase, and get the other 'Dancer & Catchers first. Meaning they are playing a Throwing team without a Thrower, and when they do get him he is unable to throw well enough to be of much help.
You can manged 6 Passes with the dude in 2 games to get Accurate, then atleast hes helpful.

And, if your going to start all LineElves then Woodies aren't the team to bother with. Their only good factor are the 'Dancers because they make up for the general lack of AV with BloDge. All LineElves and you'll still be down to 10 players come the 2nd game, and chances are you lost that first game too cos none of the players could do anything.
AG3 + Skill out performs AG4... so you players take a while to be good.
How many other starting teams can deal with a 'Dancer? (2 - both Dwarfs).
Against everyone else he's ready to leap in and grab the ball after a failed pick up or something. And, he has Block, so hes your best player for Blitzing Catcher types that start with Dodge where your only other successful Block result would be 'POW'.
'Dancers win games, pure n simple, most noticeably, the first game.

---Korhil

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:53 pm

horekim wrote:I don't know how you play elves, but I keep them out of action. If my opponent is going for my wardancer with his blitz, fine. He'll find it hard to even knock him over and leave my ball carrier on his feet. I agree that you're facing trouble if he get's killed, but I'm willing to take chances, otherwise I wouldn't play Blood Bowl

I quite agree, the Wardancer is damn hard to knock over unless you have a player with tackle (and even then it's not that easy), if your opponent tries this it will take the pressure off the Linelves and allow them to make some plays.

I read somewhere that having no regard for the safety of your players often pays off, I think this was partially toungue in cheek but I interpret this as needing to take risks where there are rewards.

I just played a game where my Wood Elf opponent got 'stuck in' to stop my run, as a result he suffered a lot of blocks (ans stuns but no worse curse my dice

) but managed to hold me off scoring long enough to keep his lead and win the game. Many Wood Elf players would (rightly) consider this a risky tactic but this time it paid off for him.

My point being that if you buy a Wardancer you have to take risks with him, he is a natural target sure but why buy him if you are too scared to use him becuase he might die?

As for him hogging all the SPPs, if you are in the lead and hes got the ball why not have him throw or handoff the ball to a linelf to score, it's not much of a risk.

He's not really going to Hog the other SPPs as a casulty or int will be down to good fortune if any of your players get one as will the MVP and i'm guessing you will not be throwing with your Wardancer.