Starting Skaven Team - 1.15m

[Olaf the Stout]

I'm joining an existing league with Skaven and have 1.15m to spend on the starting team. Of this 1.15m, 50k has to be spent on FF, no more, no less. So I basically have 1.1m to spend with a starting FF of 5.

TV of other teams in the league will vary between 115 and 165. At the moment I am thinking of the following line-up:

2 x Stormvermin (180)
4 x Gutter Runner (320)
6 x Linerat (300)
1 x Thrower (70)
3 x RR (180)
Apoth (50)
FF 5

The other option I was thinking of was dropping a Gutter Runner, getting an extra RR and saving the 20k to put towards either a 4th Gutter Runner or a Rat Ogre.

Thoughts?

Olaf the Stout

[Ullis]

I think you ought to make the decision on whether to include the Rat Ogre in the team now. What I mean is that if you even want to have a Rat Ogre on the team, then buy it now. If not, I think your roster looks solid. It's got all the positionals you need and has reserves and everything too.

I'd skip the RO myself. I've never been able to get enough value out of a Rat Ogre to justify the TV increase but then I generally get best benefits out of Big guys by having them stand still and standing up if knocked down. Skaven get excellent value from inducements and keeping your TV low is preferred for that reason. The RO means a jump of 100k in TV compared to a roster with the same number of players but no RO. You could have a GR with +2S for that price.

[Carnis]

whatever you do, dont drop a gutter to include something else. Gutters start with dodge, so they are your most versatile players after the AV8 stormvermin.. They are also uber mobile with MA9/AG4.

I dont think you *have to* start with a RO, even if you get one later. But be warned.. wild animal in a finesse team is a very very risky thing to have. On the other hand if you double and get claw or block he will get excellent so I'd likely start saving for him but not buy him at the start.

[sunnyside]

I think you might want to specify how many games you anticipate playing with this team. The rookie rat ogre seems to be a sub par big guy, having the pains in the butt of wild animal and blockless loner frenzy but without the advantages of minotaurs or Yhette unless you roll well on skill ups (at which point the thing can be incredible).

In a shorter league I wouldn't bother. In a perpetual league I'd consider taking one but be willing to fire them if they don't roll some doubles.

[mattgslater]

I personally don't see anything wrong with saving up for a RO. If you get a Guard guy and a kicker in that time, it'll be a lot easier to protect him from 2d hits and keep him in favorable matchups, especially until he can get a deterrent skill like SF or Block.

I also don't think you have to commit. Start with what you have there, which looks nice, and hoard cash for three games. If you've got enough, do it. If not, grab a Thrower instead, or hold on a game if you find you need the +ST.

[Warpstone]

Olaf, how long is your season? If it's less than 10 games, then you probably want to start with the ROgre right away so that he has ample opportunity to skill up before the playoffs. Otherwise, I think you can safely leave picking him up until game 4 or 5 as you're likely to be more efficient with the extra gutter or reroll to start.

[Olaf the Stout]

Warpstone, the season in expected to be 10-11 games long + finals.

I am now considering the following line-up, which includes a Rat Ogre:

4 x Gutter Runners
2 x Blitzers
1 x Thrower
3 x Linerats
Rat Ogre

3 x re-rolls
Apoth
5 FF (Have to buy this)

1.15m total

It only has 11 players but it still has 4 GR's, both Blitzers, a Thrower, 3 re-rolls and an Apoth. That's a pretty damn good starting team. My first couple of purchases would then probably be 2 Linerats to add some bench to the team.

Thoughts?

Olaf the Stout

[Greyhound]

I like this one the best. You are making the kind of decision I make when building a team, which is "make or break".

Just know that if your RO is fouled to death, and you loose 2-3 other player in game 1 you'll never recover.
Basically you work on getting the most on the pitch, and you only expect to loose linos for the first few games. Just save your apo for the positional.

[mattgslater]

That works. As long as you start an Apoth, you should (probably) be fine.

[Olaf the Stout]

I like this one the best. You are making the kind of decision I make when building a team, which is "make or break".

Just know that if your RO is fouled to death, and you loose 2-3 other player in game 1 you'll never recover.
Basically you work on getting the most on the pitch, and you only expect to loose linos for the first few games. Just save your apo for the positional.

I think Journeymen mean that getting a few players killed early on isn't the death sentence for a team that it used to be. Sure, it still sucks, but it used to be a lot worse. And the 3 rats on the LOS are really only there to get smacked around anyway!

Olaf the Stout

[el sid]

Drop the Rat Ogre. The RO is a nice-to-have for well developped Skaven teams in developped leagues.

In your situation (1.100k to spend, short league), I'd go:

3 RR's (180)
2 SV (180 => 360)
4 Runners (320 => 680)
1 Thrower (70 => 750)
Apo (50 => 800)
6 Linerats (300 => 1100)

Actually, an extra RR would be nice for the amount of gold pieces you can spend, but it doesn't fit in nicely.

This composition allows you to be good on offence and defence with Skaven. On offence, blitz a hole with a Storm Vermin, form a deep pocket and run in some Gutter Runners. On defence, you'll have enough fodder (the linerats) for the LoS. Get one with Kick ASAP. Kick deep, and run in the Runners to scramble the ball before it gets caged. This will get easier as soon as you get Runners with a skill distribution of Pass Block, Blodge, Wrestle, Strip Ball... Mutations like Disturbing Presence can make it even more difficult for your opponent to get the ball away from his End Zone. If all goes wrong and the ball does end up in the cage, ignore it, pound on the opposing players lost in the field, take the TD and get ready to score yourself in 2 Turns! Skaven are great.

As you can see, the Rat Ogre does not fit into this strategy to win games. Also, if you take the RO, you'll start missing Linerats very quickly to put on the line. When you're out of Linerats, who'll man the dreaded LoS for the Skaven?

Good luck!

[Olaf the Stout]

I ended up going with this team. If nothing else the Rat Ogre will be fun (and sometimes frustrating! ). First game of the season is this coming Tuesday.

4 x Gutter Runners
2 x Blitzers
1 x Thrower
3 x Linerats
Rat Ogre

3 x re-rolls
Apoth
5 FF (Have to buy this)

1.15m total

Olaf the Stout