AG5 elf thrower

[narg]

My pro-elf thrower just got AG5 on his first skill (and I got a +1ST lineman in the same game, can't complain). How would you develop such a player?
The standard path I guess would be something like accurate - sure hands - safe throw or something like that, with maybe strong arm on a doubles to be able to do a long bomb on 2+, but I'm of the opinion that a good thrower is a thrower that stays alive, so I'd prefer dodge - block; on top of that pro elves tend to spend most games on defense, where dodge - block are better than passing skills (no point having the best thrower in the league if he can only do one pass per game). I'm also a big fan of Leap on AG5 players, which allows you to relatively easily go pick up the ball in multiple tackle zones.
So for the next three skills I think I'll go for (in that order): dodge, block, leap. Then if I'm lucky enough to get to the fifth skill, sure hands or accurate or safe throw.

What do you think? Do people mostly agree or are there completely different opinions?

By the way I plan to buy another thrower to give him Leader...

[Drool_bucket]

AG 5 on an player is too good to be stuck just tossing the ball away. Plus, you can replicate the bonus of AG 5 by a simple skill like Accurate for a Thrower, so I agree with your idea that he is no longer your "thrower," but a great player that can go places and get the ball. Having the added Pass will just help get SPP faster and an occasional re-roll when you toss the ball away.

I would go Block, Dodge, Sure Hands... Hopefully by then you've got another piece that can take Leap, like that STR 4 Lineelf!

[Thadrin]

You could do worse than consider Pass Block.
Follo that up with catch and he's suddenly a really decent intercepter, who can then redistribute the ball thanks to the built-in Pass skill.

IIRC Ag5 means you're intercepting on 4+.

It's unconventional, but might be fun to try out rather than go the boring AG5 runner route (if you choose that the Dump Off is fun and irritating for opponents).

[txapo]

Dodge is a must to any AG 5 player. Then what you prefer to spezialize him at.

(I killed once on line an AG 6 trower and I guess that's the best follow up you can get)

[mattgslater]

Dodge first. After that, it's a matter of how you like to use him. Leap, Sure Hands, Block, Safe Throw, Dump Off, Accurate... can't go wrong. AG5/Accurate means he can QP from two zones, or LP from the clear, on a 2/2. Given all the Nerves of Steel receivers... that's crazy. I'd still only consider Accurate as a #4, though because if I were considering it I'd take Dodge and Safe Throw first.

[solarflare]

I think I would go with dodge, then block, then leap.

[Ullis]

I kinda like how Safe Throw on a pro elf AG5 thrower looks like. With the NoS catchers you can pretty easily guarantee a td barring the odd 1+1. But first I'd give him Dodge for the mobility, ability to get at loose balls and protection.

[Powerhausen]

Definitely throw some protective skill on him at first opportunity.

[Smurf]

It's an elf, safe guard him. Bring him on only offensive drives. AG5 next safe throw, accurate and wait for strong arm.

I have one, awesome, just need the safe throw. Do not go with block or any crap until he can 2+ long bomb, unless you don't roll a double, choose sure feet.

Hold off pass, etc... guard the guy, he's a legend in the making.

Get a defensive thrower, kick and nerves of steel... etc.

You put block or dodge on them, you put them into bad situations and they will go down.

[Smeborg]

It's an elf, safe guard him. Bring him on only offensive drives. AG5 next safe throw, accurate and wait for strong arm.

I have one, awesome, just need the safe throw. Do not go with block or any crap until he can 2+ long bomb, unless you don't roll a double, choose sure feet.

Hold off pass, etc... guard the guy, he's a legend in the making.

Get a defensive thrower, kick and nerves of steel... etc.

You put block or dodge on them, you put them into bad situations and they will go down.

I agree with Smurf. Pro-Elves are awesome without developed Throwers. With a Thrower who can do safe long passes, they will be close to invincible. With MA6, this guy will not compete with the Catchers when it comes to dodging, blitzing and the like. Keep him as a pure Thrower. Accurate, Safe Throw, KoR, Sure Hands are all good. Play him on offense only.

[mattgslater]

That makes sense. Still, if you give him Safe Throw and Accurate, I'd follow with Dodge or Catch, or maybe Leap. You don't want to have to retrieve with your deep passer. If you must, take a #2 Thrower and give him Sure Hands, KOR and Block. Or take a KOR Catcher. This guy's job is just to stay out of blitz range with the ball for as long as possible, and then to deliver it into a downfield cage, before switching to safety mode. In that case, it's very important to scheme so he never gets blocked unless he fumbles, and maybe not even then!

Safe Throw before Accurate, on AG5.

Safe Throw helps, and Accurate doesn't, when you throw quick/short into coverage from the clear, or quick into coverage from one zone. When Safe Throw helps, it eliminates 5/6 of interceptions. This is usually 5/36 of all attempts, but that's a minimum. If it's more, then it's probably either 55/216 or 5/18, but sometimes it's even more than that. (Against a Pro Elf Catcher w/AG5/Dodge/PassBlock, it's 5/8!) If you have a TRR, you can use it to save 35/36 of interceptions instead. Interceptions are very, very bad.

Accurate helps, and Safe Throw doesn't, when you throw long from the clear with no coverage, or into the clear from any coverage except for one zone on quick. Which is more common? Hard to say; I'd think Safe Throw, but I also think you can game to get comparable application. When Accurate helps, it eliminates usually 1/12 (2+ to 3+) of fumbles, sometimes instead it's 5/36 (3+ to 4+) or 7/36 (4+ to 5+) of fumbles. Fumbles are bad, but not as bad as interceptions.

So you're about equally likely to use Accurate as opposed to Safe Throw. But Safe Throw is more likely to work, and when it does work it saves an int instead of a fumble, and that's more valuable. Safe Throw/AG5 beats Accurate/AG5 hands down. On AG4, that's different, because Safe Throw is half power and Accurate is more likely to be applicable. But how often do you have to pass into the clear at -1, unless you're doing it to avoid coverage at 0?

[Smurf]

I think you underestimate the flexibility of the Longer passes.

The thrower can be kept away from harm by distance. When the player is in position to receive then the thrower can do its job.

Accurate extends the 2+ roll up to long range and with Safe Throw it means that a Long Bomb is only fumpled on a 1 but wobbles on a 2 and accurate on a 3.

The command of throwing the ball can easily turn over 2 turn TDs. But now he needs to be protected by the offensive drive only and a second thrower steps up to play defence.

Also the game is about coach psychology, having the team that can out perform anyothers in the game is a huge advantage.

[Ulthuan_Express]

Also the game is about coach psychology, having the team that can out perform anyothers in the game is a huge advantage.

+1

Having the ability to say "If I roll a 2+ throw, 2+ NoS catch and a couple of 2/3+ dodges then I've scored..." is very scary for the opposing coach. Pro Elves have great catchers and great blitzers out of the box and, if you've got your self a great thrower too, can be a constant threat with the ball on every single turn.

[Smurf]

I made my WE the kings of speed and throwing.

I will score a 2 turn TD. My thrower has only been in a fight twice in 14 games, once he dead/injured someone and the second times were desparate and he got flattened by some vamps, good job with the Apoth.

All my opponents fear them, as they know it's going to be tough to beat them. I have been beaten once by High Elves and the coach couldn't believe it. I tried to equalise on the last turn but failed.

What is more, I unnerve them because I can beat them without Team Rerolls! They know if they drop the ball I pretty much score a TD.

Kick and Passblock are useful too, but elves need safe throw and NoS now, it gives an incredible edge.

I've seen a Nurgle team and realise Long Bombs are need to beat them. Any other team with mutations I would choose disturbing presence some where along the line.

[Carnis]

IF you want to make your thrower into a deep passer, even then safe throw is better than accurate. You're AG5, means you never throw inaccurate passes, you either hit, or fumble.

Safethrow takes off the non-1 fumbles (you keep the ball instead) PLUS eliminates the need to care about interceptions (you can reroll the safethrow roll, so you avoid the intercept 35/36 times).

I'm not sure pro elves need to develop a longpasser though, they already have a brutal offence out of the box.