Talk Fantasy Football

Hi everybody I'm looking for a starting line-up for a perpetual league format.
This fact made me look at a variant of the 4 RR setup because RR's never die. I'm thorn between two variants
1 Bull Centaur
5 Chaos Dwarf Blocker
6 Hobgoblins
4 Rerolls
0 FF

Or

1 Bull Centaur
6 Chaos Dwarf Blocker
4 Hobgoblins
4 Rerolls
0 FF
10k Cash for the Apoth

I believe both set-ups are good but since the blockers develop so slow it is better to have them all 3 games earlier (At 40k average win per game). This brings the chances to land a MVP on a Blocker up by 3/11th just a little more that 1/4th.
I am presuming here that everyone wants 6 blockers on their team.
After the apoth I would start saving up for the second Bull.

The first set-up seems to be more reliable in scoring with the spare Hobgobo warming the bench to step up once he's needed, and yes I think he is needed.
But building up the team seems to be a little bit longer: First Apoth, then 6the blocker or 2nd bull.

If you want to go 4 RR, then take the 6 Chaos Dwarf build. Just make sure you're using those RRs to get the ball to the Bull. Once he is skilled up with Block, Break Tackle he is a monster.

3RRs is probably fine for CDs, they start with plenty of Block. But if you want them then I'd plump for the latter roster, for the reasons you mentioned. I don't think having a 12th player is that crucial for a starting team ... if you take a MNG/SI/Death then you start the next match with 11 regardless (Journeymen).

Joemanji wrote:3RRs is probably fine for CDs, they start with plenty of Block. But if you want them then I'd plump for the latter roster, for the reasons you mentioned. I don't think having a 12th player is that crucial for a starting team ... if you take a MNG/SI/Death then you start the next match with 11 regardless (Journeymen).

Very true and its not as if you need a loan to get a hob.
I might have started with 3 rolls and an apothecary if that bull falls you might not get him back for a couple games.

I'm with Arthur on the Apothecary over the RR#4. 6x Dwarf, 4x Hob, 1x BC, 1x Apoth, 3x TRR, 30k bank, to get the other BC that much faster. If you're an underdog, you can always grab Extra Training.

It's true you will have that Bull a lot faster but you lose 70k for buying that 4th RR later.
But you might have a point that having an apoth spare for a 130k player is not a luxury, even for one game. You might get unlucky and can't afford that apoth after the first game...

I have seen a lot of death during first games of teams in our league, so I'm tending towards... what the hell, it's open league so I can restart the team whenever it's needed, so that makes the apoth less important in the first games.

Thanks for the response guys!

IMO the best CD starting roster is:

2 Bulls
5 CDs
4 Hobs
3 RRs
20K cash

Bulls are expensive. You can find 40/70K for a player quite often, but 130K takes some saving up. Plus you want to skill them asap getting them early on in a league makes it much easier. You can risk picking the ball up with them, and there is more chance of an MVP.

It depends. If results at the start matter in your league format, then I would suggest:

1 Bull
6 CDs
6 HGs
3 RR
TV100

If you like the Minotard (I am open-minded, I don't think there is a clear-cut answer), then how about:

1 Mino
1 Bull
5 CDs
4 HGs
3 RR
TV100

I may try the latter next season (soon).

All the best.

And seriously, do you think you'll even need the fourth RR in the long run? It's 70k and you have a good spread of Block on the starting team to lessen the need for rerolls.

It's really nice to have lots of TRRs early on. The more I read, the more I think you should go for Joe's roster, with the 2/5/4 players and 3RR, but then if you expect to face a rookie mix, maybe get 2xFF or an AC and a CL to get a leg up on cash and/or RRs off kickoff. 2FF pay off in Winnings within 5 games on average, and are generally worth about half their cost in RRs. With a rookie bash team that carries a 140k TRR value (as you do out the gate) putting your RR counter value at 70k a pop, against other rookies also running at max TRR value (that is, other cash-stretched teams that had to forgo TRRs to get good players), my formula says you break even on an AC/CL (BCB 3.6 x EMD 2.75 ≈ 10; ~10 x RRCV ~65k ≈ 648k test target). It's actually a tad better, because for you a gain is better than a denial, and your odds of winning rise faster as the biggest chunks (140, 125) come out of the -1 FAME category, which is where the best gain on won RRCs is to be had (from 1/3 to 2/3 or 8/9).

The math on FF is even more friendly in your situation. FF2 carries a BC/CFB of 2.7, 75% of the (break-even) Brilliant Coaching/Cheering Fans Bonus of an AC+CL at rookie-on-rookie level. So two FF are worth three-quarters their cash value (and 3/8 their TV value) in TRRs up front, plus 20% of their cash value in cash each match (on average), until the attendant +2 on a FF roll costs you an FF, and then are worth half as much until it happens again. Likely to pay off, I say. Yes, it will eventually "ablate" away, but then again, you're the one running Hobgoblins. After all, if you don't get a winning streak, you'll never lose FF.

If you're playing veterans in the first couple games, take the cash instead, and induce Extra Training.

Wow mattgslater, I like some mathhammer but there you have lost me with those formulas with abbreviations I have never heard before. But I think I have got the bottom line: Joe's roster with 2FF is statistically the best choice in chances for extra RR's and extra cash through the FAME +1.
I think you have might convinced me because I usually thought that FF is something I will build up for free through winning and the fact that you can lose FF after reaching about 7FF made me believe it is not a wise long term investment.

On the other hand 20k in cash is almost half way to an apoth but in my case this isn't important since I can restart the team anyway.

So I'm inclining towards Joe's roster with the 2FF instead of the cash.
I'm also tempted to start off with the Minotaur because Frenzy, Horns and MB are really a good addition to the CD line-up. The fact that you want to blitz him all the time make getting 3db blocks on him really easy and thus lowering the risks you take with him.

I know it is a whole other debate but:"Why do or don't you want a minotaur on your CD team?"
I can see why not: 150k on a AV8 guy is not great and the fact that he is a Wild Animal makes him use up most of the blitzes.
But the pro's are that he is that good at blitzing, with strength 6 there are only tree's he can't take on one on one. Combined with Frenzy he can make sure the guy he is hitting is going down or off the pitch.

He is not a conservative choice but I feel, that he like any other Big Guy can turn out to be the ideal solution for a desperate situation, given he doesn't roll the 1 on that crucial blitz...

El_Jairo wrote:Wow mattgslater, I like some mathhammer but there you have lost me with those formulas with abbreviations I have never heard before. But I think I have got the bottom line: Joe's roster with 2FF is statistically the best choice in chances for extra RR's and extra cash through the FAME +1.
I think you have might convinced me because I usually thought that FF is something I will build up for free through winning and the fact that you can lose FF after reaching about 7FF made me believe it is not a wise long term investment.

On the other hand 20k in cash is almost half way to an apoth but in my case this isn't important since I can restart the team anyway.

So I'm inclining towards Joe's roster with the 2FF instead of the cash.
I'm also tempted to start off with the Minotaur because Frenzy, Horns and MB are really a good addition to the CD line-up. The fact that you want to blitz him all the time make getting 3db blocks on him really easy and thus lowering the risks you take with him.

I know it is a whole other debate but:"Why do or don't you want a minotaur on your CD team?"
I can see why not: 150k on a AV8 guy is not great and the fact that he is a Wild Animal makes him use up most of the blitzes.
But the pro's are that he is that good at blitzing, with strength 6 there are only tree's he can't take on one on one. Combined with Frenzy he can make sure the guy he is hitting is going down or off the pitch.

He is not a conservative choice but I feel, that he like any other Big Guy can turn out to be the ideal solution for a desperate situation, given he doesn't roll the 1 on that crucial blitz...

The problem is those blitzes are used mostly by bull centaurs, and trust me they need them. Your average movement on the team is going to be 4, so if a human catcher or a skink gets the ball and runs down the pitch you really need the centaur to sprint up and punch him in the back of the head.
Also lots of coaches avoid engaging the minotaur because he will need a 3+ roll to move, get him on the floor and he is even harder to get up without blitzing.

arthurinkpen wrote:Your average movement on the team is going to be 4...

Your average (mean) movement will be between 5.1 and 5.6 (depending on how you account for sure feet/sprint).

rookie hobgoblins dont count. they suck.

if you need to reliably punch something, its got to be the blockers. even the bulls aren't as good, as they dont come with blackle.

nazgob wrote:rookie hobgoblins dont count. they suck.

if you need to reliably punch something, its got to be the blockers. even the bulls aren't as good, as they dont come with blackle.

I agree about the hob, but no player is better equiped to chase down a wood elf ball handler than a bull centaur. Those feet be praised.