cage questoin - re: no guard vs. guard

[tool]

In regards to having a bash/running team: when your opponent has more guard then you (and you may define at what threshold that matters) can you still implement a cage for offensive drives or is there an alternative, established strategy for maintaining offensive drives when you have little to no guard on your team.

[mattgslater]

Depends on the team. You can run a forward cage and loose formation, and try to play keep-away, if you have a team that can transit the ball over a good distance, like Necromantic or Orcs. If you've got a Khemri or Chaos team, you may do best by keeping a wide front and being ready to reposition within it, or maybe just to sell out for a numerical edge, so you can start targeting killers and Guard players. If you're Dwarfs and out-Guarded, your best bet is to pray for mercy.

[tool]

nurgle

[mattgslater]

What's your profile like? Do you have stuff in place of Guard? If you've got some ClawMB, you should just punish punish punish, make the game about whether the other guy can survive, not whether he can move the ball. Don't cage until you've broken through, instead playing keep-away as long as you can. Try to keep the ball too deep to blitz, but not too deep to reposition, usually not hard against other bash teams. Hope that taking the first turn and having a lot of Foul Appearance will lead to a positive cas ratio.

Punting the ball isn't so bad for Nurgle; if you can get a downfield cage with Warriors in it, and you can get within short passing range (even long, if you have a TRR), an end-of-turn chuck will put the ball some place where the other guy will have a hard time recovering and delivering through the DP clouds. Not a first choice in strategy, but a viable one.

I guess it comes down to:
1) Deal a lot of damage, or, failing that,
2) Pick your battles, and keep the fighting away from the ball until you get downfield.

[Smeborg]

tool - I believe the answer to your question is yes. And looked at from another point of view, Nurgle have little alternative to a caging offense, even when out-guarded. Since Nurgle develop more slowly than most other teams, they are likely to find themselves out-guarded from time to time.

Use free players (especially the Beast and Warriors) to tie up opponents. Keep the cage moving; never miss an opportunity to move it forwards, even if by just one square. Do not stall unless the going is very good, otherwise score "early" and trust to your defense. If things get desperate, do not hesitate to hand-off or pass in order to score.

Hope that helps.

[Digger Goreman]

If you're Dwarfs and out-Guarded...

When the stimpy is THAT ever gonna happen...?

[Hitonagashi]

If you're Dwarfs and out-Guarded...

When the stimpy is THAT ever gonna happen...?

When they go MB first cos they want to kill stuff

[Smeborg]

tool - I would add that this is a not uncommon situation in tournaments for Nurgle. Because Nurgle have more important skills to take than Guard in tourneys (mainly because they lack Block), they will often face teams with (say) a couple of Guarders (while they have none). If you are able to play in a tourney with Nurgle, it would improve your understanding and confidence in such situations. It forces you to play to Nurgle's other strengths (Tentacles, D-Pres, F-App, raw ST etc).

Hope that helps.

[tool]

in my league i am just about always out-guarded by the other bashy teams by 3+. on top of that I am one of the lowest TV's in the league, having suffered an unusual amount of deaths (non-rotter deaths) and stat-losses.

I have been attempting to perform offensive drives sans cage because I'm afraid it will be easily dismantled by their guard and equal strength. I was hoping there was something else in the bloodbowl community that was an established tactic as easily recognizable as 'cage' for this type of situation.

as of now I try to tag the guard players (ofter the ST4-types) with rotters to keep them away from the scrum and it works ok. I'm not the most adept at the game so its a work in progress.

I've also tried forming offensive lines similar to classic AGI defenses (4 spaces apart, doubled up best as I can) in order to minimize their application of guard and (hopefully) tag a 'guarder' with a low-value player to tie them up (as mentioned above).

I guess it just requires more practice.

[RogueThirteen]

Generally, when I find my opponent has significantly more Guard than me, my primarily goal is always to spread the players on the pitch. Guard only works when adjacent to an ally, so the more spread out an opponent's team is the less effective the Guard will be. The last thing you want to happen against such an opponent is to get clumped up in a big scrum, because everything will then be a two-die-block in their favor unless you get lucky and can find ways to multi-block the advantage away.

This can be accomplished by making loose screens and marking lots of lone players on defense and by spreading out several potential receivers (be it a pass or a hand-off) and making screens on the offense.

Obviously, this tactic works well for teams like the elves and skaven, and I use it with my Lizardmen as well (the speed and ball-handling of the skinks allows them to spread well and the STR4 advantage of the sauri usually means they can make loose screens and still hold their own in a blocking war).

As for Nurgle, I suspect it's still you're best option -- the four warriors and blitzing-horns gives you some advantage in one-on-one blocking, and the rest of the team is at least decent enough agility to spread out some scoring threats.

[mattgslater]

If you're Dwarfs and out-Guarded...

When the stimpy is THAT ever gonna happen...?

You know why it doesn't happen?

'Cause, if you're Dwarfs and out-Guarded...

Still, it's rough going with rookie Dwarfs in a veteran league.

Oh, and

a very good argument for why there needs to be a "like" or "rec" button for responses.