Skaven vs Elves

[klauser]

I've got an important league game coming up against Woodies. We are 3rd and 4th in the current ranking, so the winner will likely get promoted to a higher division.

I'd appreciate some tactical advice on how to approach the match. My problem is that they have the means to crack my cage (ST 4 Tackle WD), whereas I don't (see my roster below). However, I will have ca. 250-300k of inducements to work with.

1. What should I get for inducements, assuming a budget of 250-300k?

2. Should I
a) cage up on offense anyway and try to grind it out to hopefully a 2-1 results, or
b) go for a shoot-out and rely on a Wizard to stop one of their TDs?

Here's my roster:

SV - MB, Guard
SV - Tackle
Thrower - Block, Accurate
Rat Ogre - Guard, Stand Firm, -AG
GR - +ST, Block, Tackle
GR - Guard, Block, -MV
GR - Block, Two Heads, +AG
GR - +MV
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Wrestle
Linerat - rookie
Linerat - rookie
Linerat - rookie

4 RR
Apo

[TalonBay]

I'd go for the shootout while trying to get the advantage in numbers (and foul that Wardancer into oblivion). If at some point you can use the wizard to get a key turnover then great.

Skitter stab-stab might be a decent investment for your inducements as he doesn't care if the opponent is all blodged up.

[Smurf]

Practise the one turn TD with the mv 10 GR. Note there is a special formation on the set up for you to do this. Especially if there is a tendency for the LOS on the elves to bunch up.

Sacred players: defend these with all you have. Any of your players with tackle, even a 1die block against the ST4 WD is worth it because a tackle has a 1/3 chance of getting it over and then foul it if it has not been hurt.

If you have 300k inducements TAKE THE HOTPOT. WE don't have many rerolls, taking them away will screw him over (I know!). It gives you some rerolls too.

Otherwise look at the card decks, you are trying to unbalance the coach as he is not to sure how to play when you have maybe 3 card to 5 cards. Or any star player that likes to cause WE death...IIRC this player has about 14 players and should be fairly easy to reduce their number.

1. Smack his line about
2. Target WD with Tacklers and or wrestler
3. use wrestler to cause turnovers too. Set him up on the line and if those dice appear force him to use a reroll or turnover.
4. kick the ball deep but when his players begin to thin down abit try shallow.
5. If unable to target WD try the catchers with the tacklers
6. If you can, smack the thrower down too.
7. tacklers must be blitzing or blocking a player with dodge.
8. Double up on the TZ on dodge players with tackler and rat ogre
9. Where you can score a 1TTD make him feel that you cannot be stopped and try and keep a head on TDs to add the pressure.
10. Do not bunch your LOS together unless you have your RO on the line giving it all guard and standfirm (prevents him from 1TTD).

IMO you can do it!

[Warpstone]

Couple rules of thumb:

* Kick to him - if he scores, so be it, but take your shots.
* 2 x Bribes and 2 x babes - best inducements in an AV7 battle.
* Don't be afraid to cage - put your ST3 blodging GR in the middle of cage with Guard on opposite corners. Sure, he could still get you, but he'll need to roll a lot of dice.
* Foul! - Your linemen are 50k. His are 70k. He can't foul you back with the same zeal. Even if he doesn't lose players, you'll make him think twice and a Woodie player who's timid is not as dangerous.
* Ignore the tree - if he has a treeman, ignore it. Don't try to take it down. Let it trudge around the LOS, you can outmaneuver it. At worst, mark it with a linerat.

[MKL]

Practise the one turn TD with the mv 10 GR. Note there is a special formation on the set up for you to do this.

Agree. 1ttd is an important tool, especially in such a game.

If you have 300k inducements TAKE THE HOTPOT. WE don't have many rerolls, taking them away will screw him over (I know!). It gives you some rerolls too.

I'm for the Wizard, but the Chef is interesting: how many rr does the W-Elf have? Lack of rr is good against leapers.

2. Target WD with Tacklers and or wrestler

Agree again. Usually I refrain from concentrating myself on attacking specific players, but till he got a WD, he can reverse the game.

3. use wrestler to cause turnovers too. Set him up on the line and if those dice appear force him to use a reroll or turnover.

There I have to disagree. In my undestanding, Wrestle does not cause turnover unless someone is holding the ball.

4. kick the ball deep but when his players begin to thin down abit try shallow.

Not sure here. I fear in the backfield his WDs can easily hunt down the GutterRunners. As W-Elf coach, what is your reasoning?

[richardleitch5]

Smurf wrote:3. use wrestler to cause turnovers too. Set him up on the line and if those dice appear force him to use a reroll or turnover.

There I have to disagree. In my undestanding, Wrestle does not cause turnover unless someone is holding the ball.


If the guy blocks you nothing in the rules say you HAVE to use your wrestler to go down safly so if the WE dont have block take the boath down and hope to hurt him more than yourself as that will be a turn over.

[MKL]

If the guy blocks you nothing in the rules say you HAVE to use your wrestler to go down safly so if the WE dont have block take the boath down and hope to hurt him more than yourself as that will be a turn over.

Now I understand. Using a wrestler on the scrimmage to lure the WE into blocking him with a player without Block/Wrestle...

[mattgslater]

Kick shallow. Foul a lot. Follow most of the advice up there. Deal some damage and make a shootout of it: you don't have enough ST3/Dodge to play the grind unless your oppo goes down men fast, in which case you can win the shootout game.

Induce Skritter, for the extra body as much as for the Stab.

[Smurf]

4. kick the ball deep but when his players begin to thin down abit try shallow.

Not sure here. I fear in the backfield his WDs can easily hunt down the GutterRunners. As W-Elf coach, what is your reasoning?

With a full team a WE coach can easily cover a shallow ball by putting TZs on it. So kick it deep, the WE coach may fail to pick up the ball - blitz the player who failed and try and pick up the ball.

When the team is down to 7-8 players, 3 have to be dedicated to the LoS leaving 4-5 to do the blitz. This means he has to either cover the width of the pitch or set up an 'L' drive leaving the risk of empty side. Now the thrower needs to be in a position to get the 'wide' ball and pass it safely, this is all adding to the pressure of the play, fail to pick up and you can hit the thrower and pick up the ball. Whilst the ball is usually kicked deep it may with a full team it is a decision of picking up the ball before or after other dice rolls, the pressure to recover the shallow ball is tough because a failure means turn over. This could prevent someone picking the ball up or the failure to do so means less of the scrimmage being knocked down. The only option the WE coach has is to cover the ball with a TZ, risky with GRs about. Marking up the WDs with RO and a tackler is a must, espcially with a Guarding RO, this means his 1 ST4 WD is under a lot of pressure to be on the pitch and to perform. Anyway with 4-5 players left on a shallow ball requires one to cover and one to pick up the ball, leaving 2-3 players for a blitz and if an assist is used the number of players able to escape is reduced to 1-2. A tackler needs to be midfield to cover the back and a tackler up front to lunge forwards. Note on a shallow ball the skaven could surround the ball landing point with a cage or semi cage in the event of a blitz.

The WE game is about playing the odds because the steal can set the game. Being conservative is not an issue. WE games is about being all out.

[Aliboon]

Fezglitch, a wizard and hopefully a BB Babe for me.

A St4 Wardancer makes caging too risky imo, with guards in the right place and a block ball carrier he'll still have a reasonable chance to get you down, so personally I wouldn't do it. So a shoot out it is, you can 1-turn easier than him (probably) and have a wizard.

[Smeborg]

Things that cause damage would probably be rather good in this match. You may want to consider a fouling strategy (Bribes).

Skitter might be rather excellent in this match-up. A Stabber who is not a SW, and with Shadowing/P-Tail. I have found him good against agile AV7 teams.

The Wizard is always good, but he is a one shot wonder, so if you take one, use him wisely with the aim of getting a 2TD swing if you can. If opportunity presents, you can also go for a good Fireball to re-inforce a damage strategy.

Good luck.

[klauser]

This match did not get played last season due to scheduling issues, but now my rats are facing off against those Woodies in a higher division. Both teams have acquired some new skills in the meanwhile and the TV difference has changed as well.

Here's my roster:

SV - MB, Guard, Tackle
SV - Tackle
Thrower - Block, Accurate
Rat Ogre - Guard, Stand Firm, (-AG)
GR - +ST, Block, Tackle
GR - Guard, Block, Side Step, (-MV)
GR - Block, Two Heads, +AG
GR - +MV, Side Step
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Wrestle
Linerat - rookie
Linerat - rookie
Linerat - MNG
4 RR
Apo

That means I'm down to 12 for this match. On the bright side, I have another Tackler in my MB Storm Vermin. Most importantly, I have an actual one-turner threat, which should force my opponent to take pre-cautions on every short drive of mine, leaving more room of maneuver for a conventional TD.


My opponent is sporting a healthy roster of 14 (!), including a Tree and one nasty Star Wardancer: 8447 MB, Tackle, Frenzy, Side Step

The rest of his team is standard-fare, noteworthy pieces are a (Block, DT, Kick) Lineelf; a (Block, Shadowing) Catcher and a (Leader, Safe Throw, Strong Arm) Thrower.

I will get exactly 250k for inducements. I definitely want a Wizard, leaving 100k. That leaves several options:

- Since I have only 12 players, I could buy another Linerat and get a Babe for the remaining 50k
- I could go balls to the walls and get a Bribe (risking an early man-down situation with a 12-rat roster)
- I could get 2 Babes or a Wandering Apo, but this seems to passive.

Suggestions?

Also, when should I go for the OTT? I'm thinking, it might be worth the risk over a 2-turn attempt, that could get bogged down easily, on either T7 or T15.

[nazgob]

Hve you considered skitter-stab-stab?

Stab against wood elves is horrendous.

[klauser]

Hve you considered skitter-stab-stab?

Stab against wood elves is horrendous.

I'd love to hire Skitter-Stab, but unfortunately it's an online league using the Cyanide client, thus the number of Star Players available is very limited. Skaven can only hire Headsplitter and Morg.

[Hitonagashi]

You took sprint over sidestep on a oneturner. This makes Hito a sad bunny. That said, I don't know your specific circumstances, and it could even prove to be better here.

Regardless...Bribe and Wizard sounds good. Anything valuable hits the ground, boot it. You've got rookie rats for a reason!