Rebuilding a skaven team

[the.tok]

Hello everyone!

Once upon a time, there was a tv1500 skaven team I owned, with 4 good GR and 2 good SV.

But then, they encountered back to back higher TV CPact(W) and Undead(L). They fought till the end, but got 3 killed in the process, plus bad injuries, so I am trying to get them back on their feet

Right now they look like this:

GR (brand new)
GR block sidestep -AV
GR +MA +AG (my precious )
Blitzer +ST
Thrower accurate
Thrower accurate
Linerat Kick niggling injury, MNG
Linerat
Linerat

3RR
4FF
Apo
Bank 20k

TV1040

I will have to go next game with at least 3 jouneyrats, but I was considering sacking the -AV GR (6AV is really low...) and the kick lineman, and try to build back from there

First purchase would be a second Blitzer, then the 3/4th GR, then I can... think about... getting a ... bench? I mean, like someday in the far future Maybe even a RO?

What do you guys think?

It is my first skaven team, and first rebuild phase so any advice will be appreciated

[Ullis]

Hold on to that GR and niggled linerat for now. The linerat has Kick so he won't get los duty anyway. Blodge should protect the GR.

Only consider firing them when you're back to 11 players. Who knows, you could lose 2 more players next match!

[johnnih]

I have never played Skaven, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have experience with fragile, expensive teams though.

Definately keep your damaged goods for now, you need at least 12 players, in my opinion, before you can start sacking them. Since you want to build a bench as fast as possible, I would delay purchasing the 4th gutter runner and get linos when you get some cash. Having a smaller team puts your players in greater danger, and you don't want to lose your stars (ST blitzer + stats GR) because you spend money on fragile and expensive GRs too soon. Actually, I might keep the kick lino for as long as he lives, and I would delay sacking the GR for quiiite some time.

As for development, you need something to protect that stat boosted GR soon. Although you really want to skill up new linos, I would try to let him score a lot as well, which shouldn't be a problem. Next skill depends on your plans for him, but I'd take block. Later, probably SS, but that depends on his role. I would try to develop my linos as fast as possible and get some wrestle and fend. This will not only protect them, but serve to protect the rest of your team by obstructing his block patterns.

One more thing. I'd try to go easy on your team till they are back on their feet and full in numbers. by this I mean be less concerned with winning your matches, and focus on minimizing blocks against you - especially on those star players. Use your journeys to tie up dangerous opponents and shield your own players when needed.

[DoubleSkulls]

I agree, don't sack either player for a while.

I wouldn't recommend a Rat Ogre. If you get lucky and get a double they are worth having, but otherwise they are just a liability that, at least for me, encourages me to play the wrong way (rapiers not sledgehammers!). If you really want a Rat ogre then buy them soon. Basically while you've got Journeymen its a good time to save cash for big items. Probably Blitzer, Rat Ogre then Gutter Runner.

I think you'll find the niggler & -AV will retire themselves soon enough and you can replace them then. If they don't I'd only look at replacing them once you get up to ~14 players.

I'm not sure I get your thrower build, I'd generally go one for passing and one for defence. Accurate is just a waste on both of them. So when one dies I'd probably go a different build with the replacement.

[Ullis]

I Since you want to build a bench as fast as possible, I would delay purchasing the 4th gutter runner and get linos when you get some cash.

First positionals, only then linemen. Gutter runners are much more durable than skaven linemen in practice due to high speed, Dodge, fast access to Block or Wrestle and the tendency of linemen to hang around the los.

[johnnih]

I Since you want to build a bench as fast as possible, I would delay purchasing the 4th gutter runner and get linos when you get some cash.

First positionals, only then linemen. Gutter runners are much more durable than skaven linemen in practice due to high speed, Dodge, fast access to Block or Wrestle and the tendency of linemen to hang around the los.

But the point is to protect teh positionals he already have. He has to stick some players to the LOS, so that's not really a good argument in my opinion - unless you are suggesting he keeps using journeys for the next many matches.

I stick to my advice. Get the linos that are easier to replace and take the heat for your skilled pieces. Your losses will hurt you less.

[Nikolai II]

Indeed, jonnih's advice is good except in two points.

First - skaven can always win games, as long as they have a few runners left, so aim at winning games. It gives you more money to rebuild with.

Second - it is the runners that win your games, so next purchase is also a gutter. Purchase after that is a replacement gutter for the -AV one (unless he skills up with AG or doubles in the meantime, in which case you can keep him around until he killer or maimed properly)

As for "being below 11 players" - either you should be getting inducements enough to add player #12 (it's only 80k inducements), or your opponent is probably too weak or unskilled to capitalize on your lack of bench. So save your money until you can buy yourself up to 12 players in one sweep. Until then it is just the usual "loner on the line" routine.

So yes - journeymen for many matches, if it is that it takes to make money.
(Except mvp loners, though - you need to replace that kicker someday, and MVP puts a lino close to that)

[the.tok]

Thanks to all of you for the input! so everybody seems to agree I should keep them so I will, and wait to herd some cash and players before replacing them. As you pointed out, they may trim themselves anyway


[quote="DoubleSkulls"
I'm not sure I get your thrower build, I'd generally go one for passing and one for defence. Accurate is just a waste on both of them. So when one dies I'd probably go a different build with the replacement.[/quote]

Well actually I find myself passing a lot with this team. Usually quick passes, and I like accurate for that. I took it twice because when I needed it, he always seemeed to be in the dugout somehow ^^

But I should consider trying to pass less, and develop a defensive one. Will keep that in mind when one dies.
Curious how you would build him then? the wrestle/tackle path?

My main gameplan in offense seems to be :
T1:
pick up hold the ball deep
infiltrate GR, protected by SV

T2:
SV frees any of the GR (they just can't shut each one, or if they do that probably means a SV is in the open)
quick pass-> TD

worked pretty well until now, but accurate is a must for that kind of plan, otherwise it just fails.

Don't really have problems winning though. The skaven just seem unstoppable sometimes

One more thing. I'd try to go easy on your team till they are back on their feet and full in numbers. by this I mean be less concerned with winning your matches, and focus on minimizing blocks against you - especially on those star players. Use your journeys to tie up dangerous opponents and shield your own players when needed.

I just tend to be in a "win at all cost" mindset, which has made my team what it is : a successful but wrecked team so the "hold off to save your players" is only theory to me. I get carried away if I see a reasonable chance of scoring, I tend to sacrifice players without second thoughts

Second - it is the runners that win your games, so next purchase is also a gutter.

either you should be getting inducements enough to add player #12 (it's only 80k inducements)

Agree about the runners winning games by themselves. They are just amazing!
Won't get inducements though, this is a Fumbbl ranked team, so TV-MM comes into play :/

[johnnih]

I just tend to be in a "win at all cost" mindset, which has made my team what it is : a successful but wrecked team so the "hold off to save your players" is only theory to me. I get carried away if I see a reasonable chance of scoring, I tend to sacrifice players without second thoughts

Well, that is a very "ratty" way of going about it. Skaven overwhelm by sheer numbers, and if a rat fall there will be another to stand in its place. Always good to see in character play.