CD defence setup with 3 Hobgoblins?

[pauli42]

How would be your defence setup with this Chaos Dwarf Team?

1x Mino (M)
2x Bulls (B)
5x Dwarfs (D)
3x Hobgoblins
- 1x Sure Hands (s)
- 1x Kick (k)
- 1x Dirty Player (f)

My first try is putting the three Hobgoblins behind the Mino in the center, like:

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[RogueThirteen]

With my CDs, I set up the LOS a little differently, spreading the three chaos dwarf blockers out as much as possible. Admittedly, I have very little experience with any type of slow bashy team, but since many opponents will have some Guard or at least a Big Guy, I find they can use 3-4 LOS players to ensure 2-Die blocks on all three dwarves. With my Dwarves maximally spread out, assuming the opponent only has 3 STR players they put on the line, the opponent has to have 9 Players on the line (3 per dwarf) to guarantee a 2-D block on each (A Big Guy cuts this down by two, as do Black Orcs, Chaos Warriors, Sauri, etc.). Of course the assisting players starting on the LOS can still move once the dwarf is blocked, but at least it puts some restriction on the opponent's set up and likely forces him or her to place defenders in a way he wouldn't normally.

Additionally, if the dwarves on LOS start spread out, then they can't all be knocked down right next to each other and marked with a single Big Guy or some other player. At least when they're spread out, the opponent has to use three players to mark them.


Another thing I might do is use the Mino and 3 HGs to make two more 'zagged columns' of two players (Mino in front of the sure hands, probably), putting each column closer to the wide-zone lines. This will leave somewhat of a hole in the middle of your defense, but with a team as slow as CDs I'd rather have the opponent's main offense efforts charging down the middle of the field so my wide-zone defenders can try and get into the action pretty quickly. A side-line cage can quickly take most of your team out of the defensive game.

[dines]

I wouldn't worry too much about the hobbos. I've used the classic ziggurat with two exposed hobbos in the middle protecting my cpomb dwarf and the blodge, sure hands hobbo. So with the mino, I'd just put him in one of the exposed middle positions and protect the sure hands gobbo behind him.

What do you think about kick in this team? I didn't bother due to the slow speed and focused on skilling a single ball hobbo, the dwarves and the bulls.

[dode74]

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You realise f and k can be blitzed with that setup, right? Because it looks to me like that is what you're trying to prevent.

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* shows the routes to blitz. You can even get a free assist in if you move it to the square directly in front of either one of them. I think this setup would lead to either a fast score or an easy spread-out (nullifying guard advantage) and stall by elves/Skaven.

[pauli42]

@Dines: I think a deep kick and a Blitz Kickoff Event works fine with the bulls. With max. 9MV they are anywhere in 2 Turns, or 1 Turn with a Blitz-Event. Therefore i try to add kick to my hobgoblin builds. But with 3 of them, i am not quite happy with any setup. Maybe i should go back and put only two on them on the field:

2x Hobgoblins
- Sure Hands, Block (S)
- Kick (K), Dirty Player

And now i am back to a normal ziggurat setup...

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[Jimmy Fantastic]

sack the mino

[pauli42]

sack the mino

I have one with Block and Guard

[Hitonagashi]

sack the mino

I have one with Block and Guard

sack the mino

[Overhamsteren]

Why spam your min/max talk in a thread about best using the players you have?

[dines]

@Dines: I think a deep kick and a Blitz Kickoff Event works fine with the bulls. With max. 9MV they are anywhere in 2 Turns, or 1 Turn with a Blitz-Event. Therefore i try to add kick to my hobgoblin builds. But with 3 of them, i am not quite happy with any setup. Maybe i should go back and put only two on them on the field:

2x Hobgoblins
- Sure Hands, Block (S)
- Kick (K), Dirty Player

And now i am back to a normal ziggurat setup...

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- - B -|- D - - - M -|- B - -
- D - -|K - - - - - S|- - D -
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Well I would never bench a dwarf, so in the first post I assumed that you missed the last one... I'd go for the zig like you posted.

[Hitonagashi]

Why spam your min/max talk in a thread about best using the players you have?

I wouldn't call it min-max...the mino on a CD team is shockingly bad. Block does make him better, I'll give that, but I still really don't like it. I'd say that in any environment. I'd prefer a wizard than a mino if they are higher TV, or to prevent one if they are lower TV.

Maybe rookie TV TT tournament, where you don't have skills on your players to develop a reliable blitzer.

The other thing I saw is that Pauli said "9 players on the LOS to ensure the 2d's, ST4 players cuts this down by 2."

With the formation
-x-x-x--
--ddd-- you can pretty reliably hit the LOS with just 3 saurii for the 3 dwarves.

I'd usually go
xxkxx to ensure the Krox can take a 3d, but that's personal preference.

I've seen CD players put the hobs in front of the dwarves, or on the LOS against killer chaos teams (as only thick skull and block separates a hob from a dwarf then).

The only thing I don't like about the Zig is that your dwarves are 4 squares off the LOS. I'd personally swop the bulls and dwarves around? That way, if you need it, the dwarves can also blitz people they set up on the LOS to hit you with, while the bulls storm the backfield.

[dines]

....The only thing I don't like about the Zig is that your dwarves are 4 squares off the LOS. I'd personally swop the bulls and dwarves around? That way, if you need it, the dwarves can also blitz people they set up on the LOS to hit you with, while the bulls storm the backfield.

Whoops didn't notice that one, agree with Hito, bulls behind the dwarves. Haven't tried a mino on the CD team due to same reasons Hito mentions, but my team had a ST5, block, bt, tackle bull and a cpomb dwarf who shared the blitzing duty depending on the target: Bull for the ball, CD for the kill, so when should the mino get the chance to prove his worth?

[pauli42]

Thank you all for your good answers!

We have some houserules which includes a player transfer from other inactive teams. At the moment i think about how to spend my gold and thats the reason for my initial question. I am sorry if i have confused anyone...

Without a Mino (playing Chaos Pact atm and dont pick up a Mino with Block and Guard hurts my heart) my initial Team has 2x Bulls, 5x Dwarfs and 4 Hobgoblin

So would you setup the 4 Hobgoblin in the middle like this?

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And back to topic, how would be a normas CD setup with 3 Hobgblins and 6 Dwarfs?

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[dines]

Yes and yes, but would move the LOS dwarves together in the middle.

[pauli42]

Fine...the answer is this setup..ty!

3x Hobgoblins
- 1x Sure Hands (S)
- 1x Kick (K)
- 1x Dirty Player (F)

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