Good ways to beat Vampires

[odinsgrandson]

Ok, I've started up a Vampire team that has been doing extremely well. I started with three vamps and five re-rolls, which has worked out super well for me.

However, after a game, I often talk with my opponents about what could have went better, and I'm often at a loss. From what I can tell, when playing against vampires, you're supposed to sit back and watch the team implode- but that hasn't been happening to me very often (due to good number of re-rolls, and good positioning on the thralls).

In addition, a traditional box might as well be made of paper against the Vampires who pretty casually just waltz through it with their hypnotism. And marking every Vampire isn't the best way to go, since the thralls are good enough players if I have the re-rolls for them (and I usually do).

I feel this is a little odd, since Vampires are supposedly a lower tier team, but my win/loss ratio is really good.

Anyway, what are some good tactics for taking down a Vampire team.

[txapo]

Anyway, what are some good tactics for taking down a Vampire team.

get rid of many thralls, then the vamps. ball far away they are great at cage breaking,...

atrittion is the best tactick against vamps

and yes they are a dificult team but if you are a good player you can win with them ad they improve a lot as the vamps develop.

[Nikolai II]

If you have MB (or lucky casualty dice) - go straight for the thralls at all times. They are frail as skavens.

Similarly, it is the thralls you should mark up, they have low ag, and if they don't get away then the next time you put the hurt on.

Separating the vampires and the thralls is also a workable tactic. Anything that forces your opponent to potentially spend a reroll on a bloodlust is a good thing.

When defending the ball, screens rather than cage. If hypno-gazes have to be spread out to safely reach the ballcarrier you might still have an assist against the takedown. Also, forcing the vampire to spread out his team can once more mean separating thralls and vampires.

Don't wait for the vampires to implode. Bloodlust is 2+ to succeed, and if they succeed they'll be able to play like beastmen with +AG, who can also remove players with a simple AG roll..

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tl/dr +1 to txapo - block or foul thralls with abandon. Even if thralls are cheap, vampire teams tend to suffer when they run out.

[nick_nameless]

block or foul thralls with abandon. Even if thralls are cheap, vampire teams tend to suffer when they run out.

IMO It's almost never worth it to foul a thrall. Sheer economy says no.

Block the thralls into oblivion. Foul the Vampires if you are going to foul someone. Tackle and wrestle are helpful to get those buggers off of their feet.

[Nikolai II]

Last game against vampires I played with undead - foul was well worth it to get rid of yet a few more thralls, since I had people waiting off the pitch and he was down to pretty few.

(Vampires are foulable - but they also have regeneration)

[RogueThirteen]

Trick to dismantling Vamps is, as noted, to take the thralls out of the game. This means marking them (as they are crummy at blocking in retaliation or dodging away) and hitting / blitzing them as often as possible. This, coupled with some Bloodlust removal, will leave the team very vulnerable near the end. As a rule, I never bother to blitz the vampires themselves (even if you CAS them, good chance they will Regen or Apoth right back anyhow).


To defend against hyno-gaze, I run a loose cage with lots of screening.

[dines]

I think we should stop this discussion immediately! I'm preparing a vamp team for an upcoming tt league and don't want any fellow coaches to learn any tricks.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Remember to turn up on time and bring your dice and team. That's about it.
Vampires are the worst non stunty team in the game.
It's super easy to remove thralls from the pitch, or in your case with only 3 Vamps it's super easy to target your Vamps.
The X cage is a bad idea in general, layered cages and screens are the way forward vs all teams.
Of course if you are that much better than your local opponents you could head over to https://fumbbl.com/ if you want a challenge.

[spubbbba]

Remember to turn up on time and bring your dice and team. That's about it.
Vampires are the worst non stunty team in the game.

I wouldn't go that far, but do agree that overall Vamps are one of the weakest sides in the game. Part of the trouble is that they are very hard to use so a lot of coaches give up on them so there are far fewer skilled vamp coaches then there are Orc or Dark elven ones.

However if used well then they can be dangerous as they play very differently from other teams. Also if you rely too much on them failing bloodlust then you will come unstuck. Vampires break most of the team building rules with both ST and AG4 as well as strength and agility access not to mention coming with 2 of the best skills in the game (regen and gaze). So if they go through a couple of turns with no bloodlusts they can rip open any cage or fly though the best defence.

[Hitonagashi]

Something people haven't mentioned...kick to them.

As bash:
Stalling against vamps with a full team is very tricky due to all that gaze..a few good rolls, and he's in your cage!

If you give them the ball, they will eat their own team on occasion while they move down the pitch, and you will get the chance to kill thralls off. You should have some MB, don't worry about hitting the vamps to start with.

Treat vampires like woodelves..a standard X cage won't stop them, but a standard X cage with a line of 2 space separated men in front of them is a pain, as they have to gaze through both layers (not that that will necessarily stop them mind...). Guarding cage corners are nice, as gaze isn't THAT reliable. More rolls you force them to make, the more they will fail.

The tactics are different for agility and bash. For AG, score repeatedly on them, you should have plenty of ball stealing powers, so just keep forcing them onto offense. With MV 6 they are slower than you, so you should be able to run rings around them.

[DoubleSkulls]

Or they can assist you in dismantling the team by removing thralls or leaving the pitch themselves

Definitely a boom or bust team

[swilhelm73]

IMO, Vamps are a terrible team at low TV, but get MUCH better at high TV.

At >2000 TV they are actually a GOOD tier 1 team. Having RRs, subs, and skills that cut down on turnovers - block, dodge, etc - make a big difference, allowing them to save RRs for blood lust.

So how do you beat them?

Firstly play conservatively. They will beat themselves on offense or defense regularly. Long drives are especially problematic for vamps as they will be removing some of their own players from the pitch.

Secondly, if you have cheap lineman, mark any vamp that is not near a thrall and is out of position. This will force them to either move a thrall out of position two, or risk a BL roll.

Thirdly, try to move the thralls anyway from where he wants his vamps to go.

[Smeborg]

IMO, Vamps are a terrible team at low TV, but get MUCH better at high TV.

I am inclined to agree with that and also think that Vamps are somewhat better than they are cracked up to be (in the hands of a good coach, of course).

The main strength of Vamps is their ability to threaten the ball wherever it is on the pitch. I suspect the teams that do best against Vamps are either (a) very bashy (win on numbers) or (b) very flashy (keep the ball out of range and score at will).

All the best.

[neverworking]

Good coaches can make magic with a Vamp team after its a little skilled up, but its clearly not easy. Good vamp coaches usually send a thrall where they intend to send a vamp first so blood lust won't require a reroll or change of plans; keeping that in mind anything that impedes the path of the thralls is usually helpful. The traditional cage doesn't work nearly as well and screens are needed. It should be probably be pointed out that hypno gaze has a -1 modifier for every other tackle zone on the vamp, so it can also help keep that in mind when positioning players that might get hypno gazed the following turn.

[odinsgrandson]

A starting Vampire team can be lethal, or really stupid depending on your starting lineup. I took three vampires and five re-rolls, and have been winning far more than I've been losing.

Sure, a play here and there gets destroyed by Bloodlust, and I do sometimes have to bring in my benched thralls, but overall they play very nicely.

Also, Vampires can score rather quickly. I tend to score on turn two or three if my team doesn't lose the ball. Also, they can recover from the opponent very easily- I've found that Kick has made them a tremendous when defending.

Now, for kicks I tried out a five vampire rookie team, and they really sucked, but that hasn't been true of my three vamp team at all.

Now, I'm on the side of people who think that Vampire Blodgers are better than Pros, and that a dedicated Passing vamp is pretty great. And it has done well for me so far.