Which elf team do you feel is, overall, the best?

[RogueThirteen]

Greetings everyone, I'm just looking to get a discussion going just to foster the exchange of ideas. Which elf team do you feel is best overall (aka, averaging their potency across all TV levels) when it comes to winning games (I'm not looking for preferences on team fluff or look or play-style)?


My vote would have to go to Wood Elves (with Dark Elves at close second, given their access to 4x Blitzers and 2x Witches).

Wood Elves because they get more speed and more skills (typically +1 or +2) on their catchers and "blitzers," so at comparable TV / SPP levels, their positional players will always be one or two skills better than their counterparts. One might try and make the argument that "well, they are all AV7 and High Elves (and to a lesser extend Dark Elves) are AV8. Fair enough, except the Wood Elves get a +1MA bonus in exchange. The difference between AV8 and AV7 cannot be understated, but I have NEVER seen anyone take a +AV on a "10" roll for player development - common folk wisdom 'round these here parts seem to be that move is ALWAYS preferable to armor, at least at the level of an individual player.

If I had to rank them, I'd go:

1) Wood Elves
2) Dark Elves
3) High Elves + Pro Elves


Just tossing out something (relatively) new for discussion, this is by no means a "Wood Elf are too good" or "High Elf are too bad" post (in fact, I love the play-style differences between all the elf teams, I think they are all competitive, and High Elf are one of my absolute favorite teams to play).

[dines]

I agree with your reasoning and also think woodies are the best followed by dark and then high elves. Pro elves I have little experience with, so not sure where to place them.

Woodies are far better than dark elves at low TV but as the TV increases the dark elves higher armor and more blitzers helps them out.

Edit: By extracting data from FUMBBL blackbox http://www.cmanu.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/b ... srace.html it seems your listing was pretty correct.
Win% (win+1/2draw)
TV 1000-1500
Wood: 51.8
Dark: 50.2
Pro: 49.7
High: 46.4

TV1500-2000
Dark: 58.5
Wood: 58.4
Pro: 56.8
High: 53.5

Blackbox is ofcourse pretty bashy so most teams are probably geared more towards beating bash rather than elves.

[garion]

I really wouldnt rely on those figures for anything really. Though yeah Dark Elves are probably the best if you take everything in to account.

But really they are all pretty much the same and all in the elite tier of the game.

[DoubleSkulls]

Short and medium length Woodies without question. Longer than about 20 games I think Darkies and High Elves really start to shine since Av8 means many of their players can survive longer to skill up.

[Coach Grievous]

Dark Elves and Wood Elves are pretty close, but just based on general statistics and tourney successes, I think Wood Elves edge out as the favorite. As mentioned by dines though, Darkies improve better with TR (and so do High Elves, really).

High Elves really need a buff to be at the other elves' level, in my mind. I'd say 4 x Blitzers, 2 x Catchers and voila. They'd be a near mirror of the Dark Elves, which is great flavor-wise, but still different enough.

Pro Elves feel a bit different and if we gotta have them, I think they're at a pretty nice place.

[Hitonagashi]

I'd say that High come into their own at massive TV (which is fitting really for them).

Dark are generally better...but once you get to 2200 TV+, the High Elf squad generally has it's catchers rolling, a solid thrower for emergencies/running, 2 good blitzers. That extra speed can really swing the games for you. In addition, Moron is one of my favourite stars.

[Aliboon]

I voted Woodies, but I think all of them are arguably the best at different TV levels.

Woodies start off the best, but fade after a while. Darkies are steady all along, really high TV Helves can be awesome (the catchers have wardancer stats, can be developed as you like and you get 4 of them and with solid linos).

The Pro Elves have the best passing game, (although I suppose that doesn't really count for much these days) and they have nice blitzers and great catchers. I think they're best at min-maxing with disposable linos, a good thrower and another great 5-6 players.

[Smeborg]

I voted Pro-Elves, this reflects my own playing experience. I play AG4 teams in an aggressive counter-attacking style, this suits Pro-Elves perfectly.

[dr. evil]

I voted for dark elves. The key to winning in blood bowl is to score on defence and I think dark elves are the best at defence.

I think pro elves are a bit under-rated. They can score almost at will out of the box and only get better with development. If they are developed with defence in mind they can be hard to deal with.

Yes, I know I just said that defence wins game and then preached offence. But if your scoring on your offensive drive then your opponent isn't scoring any defensive TD.

[odinsgrandson]

They are all in an elite tier together.

I think Pro Elves and High Elves are a little underrated- mostly because you can get a lot of what they do out of other elf teams (Dark Elves have the armor, Wood Elves don't need the Pro-elf skills).

In the leagues I've been in, Wood Elves had a rough time getting their TV very high due to casualties. But they still played well, so I don't know. High Elves and Dark Elves tend to survive better, and Pro elves won't charge you an arm and a leg to replace your dead linemen.

[El_Jairo]

I voted Dark Elves, because I play them

Otherwise I think Pro-elves are really good with the cheaper throw away pieces and some awesome catchers.
Wood-elves do have the advantage of speed but have more the problem that only positional players develop.

So overall it is more feasible to spread skills around Dark Elves (and keep some alive) which makes them great on the long run. But typically you will be handing out some inducements.

[Thadrin]

Voted Dark, simply as they are more durable than Wood. At low TV it's clearly Wood, as they have the best starting player in the game. At high TV I might edge to High, as they have the best all around stats in the game and if you can get them to a high TV then you likely have made up for their lack of initial skills. Effectively a developed High Elf team can have four Wardancers. (4 catchers with 3 skills each)

[Juriel]

Wood elves, BUT they are a lot more random in their performance, so on average I barely voted Darkies.

[Smurf]

WE but I know their limitations. I know when a coach doesn't know their limitations.

DE rely on a running game, but they do have six blitzers including the Witches.

HE have a solid passing game.

Elves have the ability to use some cheeky plays and can mimick their WE and HE cousins.

AV8 favours the DE/HE in the long term, cheap players for the Elves is a benefit too. WE do not need a treeman but can bring a LOS bashing piece.

[RogueThirteen]

AV8 favours the DE/HE in the long term, cheap players for the Elves is a benefit too. WE do not need a treeman but can bring a LOS bashing piece.

This is certainly true, but perhaps only marginally. Since WE positionals start with more protection out of the gate (Dodge on the Catchers and Wardancers), this means the pricey pieces will be all the closer to a fast Blodge/Wrodge combo. Then, since they'll always be a "skill ahead" of their corresponding HE/DE positions, they can have more safety-boosting skills like Side Step when compared to evenly-skilled counterparts.

I guess it all depends on what you think offers better overall protection long-term: +1 AV or +1 survival skill.

Of course, when it comes to the linemen, HE/DE have the obvious edge on survivability (but +1MA is still better, in my opinion - how many people do you know take +1AV on a "10" vs. how many take +1MA?). This is, of course, the WE weakness: expensive, fairly frail linemen.