Talk Fantasy Football

I run a Chaos team in a Cyanide league that I play in.

They've had a lot of turnover recently, and Cyanide is coming out with an expansion that includes Chaos Dwarves. So I was considering switching and rolling a new CDw team...

However, I created a CDw team in the client and played it in single player, and I'm not convinced now that I want to switch.

At low TV - I definitely see the appeal of CDws. You've got 5-6 players who start with block, and you can quickly add MB/Guard after 6 SPP, both at 16!

But after that those players have peaked in efficiency. I think CDw are stronger then dwarves at higher TV, but now I'm not convinced that they aren't clearly weaker then Chaos in the range you can expect a long term league team to spend most of its time: 1800-2200 TV.

Chaos Minos are useful if you can roll one double: Block, Claw, Guard, Tents, SF - that's NICE.
CDw Minos are probably not useful since you only get mutations on doubles - people can and will dodge from you and since you will face a lot of av9 - other big guys, CWs, BoBs, etc - claw is highly valuable.

Bull Centaurs are pretty nice - but that ag2 is makes it hard to score with them. And like with Necro WWs, it doesn't have to be their primary role to score for high movement to come in handy (1Turn TDs, running away from the defenders potential movement, etc).

And overall ag2 is a team problem since the HobGobs are so weak. Presuming you don't get +ag on a BC, it is tempting to field only 3 (or 2 with a mino) of them. But with AV7 they can be taken off the pitch easily...

And overall ag2 is a bigger problem. While in some sense ag3 across the board is wasted on Chaos - it does mean that any of your players can legitimately score. Which makes the team more efficient in terms of SPP.

Thoughts? I ran a pretty successful CDw team in LRB4.0 - but now I'm not sure I'd want to swap moving forward.

swil - I don't pay on Cyanide or FUMBBL, but here are my thoughts:

- AG2 is not as big a drawback as you think. I like to use Bull Centaurs to run the ball, and am prepared to burn a RR in the first attempt to pick it up. Only if the first pick-up fails and the ball is in danger will I pick it up with a Hobgoblin.

- Break Tackle is the key Bull Centaur skill in any format IMO. You can take Fend as 3rd or 4th skill on the Bulls to protect them in a ClawPoMb environment. They are the Runners and Blitzers of the team. A Bull with B-Tackle is hard to stop from scoring. He can also attack the ball surprisingly often.

- Running the ball with the Bulls skills them up, which they badly need.

- I like to start Hobgoblins nowadays with Block/Fend (one will go Block/S-Hands). Block/Fend (Dodge on doubles) protects them, and increases their potential when in a Receiver position. It also means they are more often free to move, exploiting the somewhat mini-maxed MA of the team.

- I don't like the Minotard on this team. He costs a lot (almost 4 Hobgoblins), and you cannot IMO afford to keep wasting blitz actions on him (the Bulls like to blitz a lot). Without the 'Tard, TV is rather nice and lean (118 for 14 players and 3RR), more than competitive with most teams.

- CDs can struggle in any format against the high ST teams if they do not get either CAS or good position (one of these is enough). At higher TV, CDs are likely to have plenty of ClawPoMbers of their own. 2 Bulls with B-Tackle and 3 Hobgoboins is quite a lot of mobility for a slayer team.

Hope that helps.

Agree with Smeborg. Until the bulls have gotten b-tackle and block, I'd really try scoring with them if possible. After that they can really take care of themself both in offense and defense.

Forget about the mino and cross your fingers for a double on a dwarf to get a cpomb'er! That will be your main blitzer unless the ball is involved.

I found tackle on a bull to be really nice after block and b-tackle. The dwarves are too slow to run after ballcarriers so you need some mobile takedown power.

Hobs rarely skill that much for two reasons: I really focus on the bulls and hobs die very often. Sure hands and block is the key for one (or two) the rest are just fodder, assists etc.

I’d echo what others have said about not taking the mino, he really is a bit of an expensive liability and you have plenty of other options when it comes to blitzing.

The interesting thing about the Chaos Dwarf team compared to Chaos is that they are all more specialised. This can be a good thing as your blockers are great at blocking and relatively cheap since they have low AG and MA.

I’d say Chaos dwarfs are considerably better than chaos up to 1800 TV and then it really depends on what skills you get. To compete at high TV you need to get some doubles to give you access to claw and the bulls become absolute beasts with stat upgrades.

A lot of coaches keep their TV lean by not only leaving the min but also not bothering with many skills for the hobgoblins. One is made a ball carrier with block and sure hands but the rest tend to get 1 skill at most, usually wrestle or DP. This does mean you can have some cheap subs which helps with fouling or when losing cas. The most important factor is to protect your bulls, since if they get taken out then the team will really struggle.

lots of very good skills after MB/Guard, most CD teams will benefit greatly from some Grab/Dauntless/Standfirm spread out on the Chaos dwarfs

You don't want to be high TV really. No mino, don't bother skilling the hobgoblins much and clpomb the CD's. Yes the cd guards going down (PO) can be a problem, but you should be slaughtering the opposition... They can be a very good team to min/max your TR. Of course I don't know what stars they are getting which could alter things!

I think it's a false start to compare any other team to Chaos in the 2k+ range. :p CDs can instead be quite TV-efficient, just forget all about using the Mino.

Dwarves themselves can certainly use skills besides MB/Guard - Dauntless and Stand Firm are right away obvious options, and Grab could be beneficial even if you're not putting Frenzy onto a Bull.

Hobs, eh, they're perfect for their price. Just don't over-skill them for no reason.

I like the big guy he is fun. Especially when you can set up 3d blocks. Used sparingly he is ok.

Try caging a dwarf and marching to the end. The little guys need their points. Hobgoblins, surehands and get some ball movement but don't let them score because they suck.

Chris wrote:You don't want to be high TV really. No mino, don't bother skilling the hobgoblins much and clpomb the CD's. Yes the cd guards going down (PO) can be a problem, but you should be slaughtering the opposition... They can be a very good team to min/max your TR. Of course I don't know what stars they are getting which could alter things!

Does that indicate that say like UN, this is not a good permanent league team?

swilhelm73 wrote:

Chris wrote:You don't want to be high TV really. No mino, don't bother skilling the hobgoblins much and clpomb the CD's. Yes the cd guards going down (PO) can be a problem, but you should be slaughtering the opposition... They can be a very good team to min/max your TR. Of course I don't know what stars they are getting which could alter things!

Does that indicate that say like UN, this is not a good permanent league team?

Yep. It's a *great* permanent league team.

It starts off quite strong, the tackle giving it a chance against elves, and once it's got some clawbomb and bull power, it's a insanely strong endgame team too.

I actually usually favour the CD's against chaos at high TV....everything is av 7 to the claw bomber, and hob reserves are cheaper than Beasts. Incidentally, they also seem to be the choice of most of the top coaches in FUMBBL majors when they go bash. There's almost always one of the 170+ CR coaches with CD's near the last 8.

Agree with Hito, they are strong allthrough the game. Early they can have some problems against raw str, but that is mitigated later via guard and cpomb. They also have Hthark and even though he is not as great as he used to be he's still worth his money imo. You shouldn't worry about bringing them to a long term/perpetual league, except if you are afraid of being called a powergamer.

I agree with Chris that you shouldn't let your TV increase too much (ignore mino, keep hobs relatively unskilled) but that's definately not the same as they have problems late in a league.