Talk Fantasy Football

The last match with the New Albion Expatriates, player #15, Monte Cello, skilled and got an 11. I should be thrilled, right? I took the AG, just in case.

But I haven't submitted a support ticket, and I'm quite convinced that this team needs more Side Step. I can see the AG, as eventually a tournament team needs AG guys, and this would give me two with all the basic stuff to build now. I have three main linemen, plus a reserve, so he's a second reserve on the LOS. Still, having another SS would help me gum up the works quite a lot more (the multiplicative power of Blodgestep), so the short term cost is significant.

Was I right to take +AG? Let me know soon, please. Also, it's time to start building the toolbox. I have a lot of ideas, but I'd like to hear what you like to do once you've got all your bases covered.

Matt - I don't take +AG on Linos on any of the Elven teams. I consider it a waste of TV, and (perhaps more importantly) it blocks them from taking bread and butter Lino skills like Block and Dodge. I will normally take +AG on the positionals, that's a different story.

All the best.

Smeborg wrote:Matt - I don't take +AG on Linos on any of the Elven teams. I consider it a waste of TV, and (perhaps more importantly) it blocks them from taking bread and butter Lino skills like Block and Dodge. I will normally take +AG on the positionals, that's a different story.

All the best.

Team and player names are links. He's got both Block and Dodge already: this is #3, and is competing with SS (would be my third Blodgestep lino). Whole team has Dodge. Only two guys don't have Block or Wrestle: one is my reserve (12 men), and one is my MA9/Dodge Catcher on 28 SPP.

Sidestep is good when things are going well. Ag 5 rescues you when things aren't.

If you'll excuse the criticism Matt, I think you tend to overly build to dominate an already won game. You have all the tools you need to cage break already, so personally, I think it's time for the backup plan. If you want to play majors you need one, as in 7 games, you will have one where you are either outplayed or outdiced.

Hmm, I can see the difficulty in deciding, not so much vs SS, but whether you will get the value you want out of AG5.

The other AG5 player, with wrestle, I imagine, will become your leaping cage breaker.

This guy could be the player to go get the ball...

Or he could be your thrower since ag5 means a 2+ on short passes.

But, a base thrower would be cheaper...and probably better.

By the way, I FUMBBL showed the top CAS game in the link above your team...with 21 CAS. WOW

http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=2701003

mattgslater wrote: Still, having another SS would help me gum up the works quite a lot more (the multiplicative power of Blodgestep), so the short term cost is significant.

You worry about cost and play High Elves with 4 rrs? 3 are enough.
About the topic: since your linelf already has Blodge I would happily take the +1 AG.
You can do great things with Dodge and AG 5.

swilhelm73 wrote: By the way, I FUMBBL showed the top CAS game in the link above your team...with 21 CAS. WOW

http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=2701003

Watch the replay for that game, neither coach was playing properly they ignore the ball and only score to get KO'd or regened players back on the pitch. Both have since been banned for fixing games, no great loss as they were massive pickers anyway.

I should mention that I have a vested interest in that as prior to that I had the highest cas game at 20, but that was with overtime.


Back on topic, I do like to have AG5 just for cool factor. All elves can benefit from it, and not taking it does risk having your existing players die. However with elves there is always a balance between boring normal skills compared to stats and doubles. I tend to lean more towards stat and double heavy as the game is primarily for fun.
I can't see anyone boasting about a blodge, SS, DT high elf lineman or guard, MB, tackle, PO Orc Blitzer, but I love my guard, SS, DT zombie.

spubbbba wrote:Back on topic, I do like to have AG5 just for cool factor. All elves can benefit from it, and not taking it does risk having your existing players die. However with elves there is always a balance between boring normal skills compared to stats and doubles. I tend to lean more towards stat and double heavy as the game is primarily for fun.
I can't see anyone boasting about a blodge, SS, DT high elf lineman or guard, MB, tackle, PO Orc Blitzer, but I love my guard, SS, DT zombie.

You and Hito are convincing me to stay with AG, I think. This team has rolled only one double in 50 improvements. Have had 3x 6,4. This is my second 6,5. So that's 44 normal skill rolls in 50 games, >7/8. :sigh:

Re: dominating already won games, failing to do that is why I don't win more. I'm great at launching out the gate and beating an enemy into submission: I love a good scrum, on a level that borders on the unhealthy (at least to the other guy's mens). But once I've gotten control, I've been known to start getting silly and give away a tie. I could be batting .700 instead of .625, but for that one major hole in my game. (Okay, maybe I'd have to quit Nurglings... if someone pries them from my cold, rotting hands.) It's bad enough that I give up more scores on offense than I do on defense. In fact, on offense, I'm about net-zero scoring, mostly for this very reason, while my defense is generally pretty indomitable.

You're definitely right about tournaments, though. I'm not very good when I go down men: it doesn't happen a lot (I'm usually the hammer, not the nail), but I could see how the odds of that are better in a tournament. And when it does happen, I have a hard time, even with elves. Much of this I'm sure is build. Eleven Blodgestep Mofos are scary: seven Blodgestep Mofos not so much, if they don't have stuff to go with it. So yeah, I have a budget for useful extras: my bread-and-butter is good enough.

So +AG it is. This means it's time to start thinking about long-term track for these guys, huh?
I got 7x lino:
* Wrodge, +AG (47). Leap, then Strip, then laugh all the way to the endzone. No doubles, only ST (MA over Pro at 176).
* Blodge, SS, -MA (40). Fend? Jump Up? Dauntless? -MA puts him on the line, but with Jump Up I could reposition him a lot better or hit back if he takes a pow. SS/JU is fun. Fend is Fend, and this is now an expensive team: would make him a good marker vs Frenzy and/or POMB. Dauntless would fill a very real void, but it's not a great skill. Guard or +ST over skill.
* Wrodge, Kick (35). SS? Frenzy? Tackle? I'm ambivalent on Frenzy on my Catcher, almost thinking I should have taken Tackle. So often I go in, pop the ball, and want to get out into position to protect the receiver after I scoop with another guy, but Frenzy leaves me upfield and often forces me to dodge. A second Frenzy would help a lot.
* Blodge, SS (31). Tackle, with DT in mind? Fend or JU as above?
* Blodge, +AG (31). Decisions, decisions. Sure Hands? Side Step? Leap? Leaning Sure Hands. Leap on him would give me Slannazons!
* Wrodge (24). SS. Hey, an easy one! Guard on doubles.
* Dodge (6). Block or Wrestle? Guard or +ST only over B/W.

Re: 4 RR, 3 is my norm; I just bought #4, and I only intend to keep it while I'm riding in SE-2 territory. Once I break 1900, my math changes, and I keep that RR until I break 2050. Partly, it's the nature of my style: I throw a lot more blocks than most coaches. Even my elves throw as many blocks as they take; for Dwarfs it's more like 2:1, Humans 3:2. But elves need d6 rolls sometimes too.

mattgslater wrote: So +AG it is. This means it's time to start thinking about long-term track for these guys, huh?
I got 7x lino:
* Wrodge, +AG (47). Leap, then Strip, then laugh all the way to the endzone. No doubles, only ST (MA over Pro at 176).
* Blodge, SS, -MA (40). Fend? Jump Up? Dauntless? -MA puts him on the line, but with Jump Up I could reposition him a lot better or hit back if he takes a pow. SS/JU is fun. Fend is Fend, and this is now an expensive team: would make him a good marker vs Frenzy and/or POMB. Dauntless would fill a very real void, but it's not a great skill. Guard or +ST over skill.
* Wrodge, Kick (35). SS? Frenzy? Tackle? I'm ambivalent on Frenzy on my Catcher, almost thinking I should have taken Tackle. So often I go in, pop the ball, and want to get out into position to protect the receiver after I scoop with another guy, but Frenzy leaves me upfield and often forces me to dodge. A second Frenzy would help a lot.
* Blodge, SS (31). Tackle, with DT in mind? Fend or JU as above?
* Blodge, +AG (31). Decisions, decisions. Sure Hands? Side Step? Leap? Leaning Sure Hands. Leap on him would give me Slannazons!
* Wrodge (24). SS. Hey, an easy one! Guard on doubles.
* Dodge (6). Block or Wrestle? Guard or +ST only over B/W.

Wrodger +AG - I'd probably go Strip then Leap. You are 4+ to dodge into a standard X cage, and the riskiest bit is the -2d. With strip, the odds move from around 20% to I think 90% with a RR. Much bigger statistical increase than leap then strip.

Blodge/SS/-ma - Fend. Fending sidestepping blodgers are nightmares to face on the LOS, or against a cage. They also make good markers, as they can't be POed.

Wrodge/Kick - Hard one. Personally, probably sidestep, but you'll get use out of most options. I'd go fend except he has kick.

Blodge/SS - Diving Tackle. You'll want it against elves, and it's a pain against everyone else.

Blodge/+AG - Leap personally. I can see Sure hands though, and it gives you the interesting option to run the ball with him, using your catchers as mobile threats that you can hand off to.

Wrodge - As you say, SS.

Dodge - Wrestle.

Personally, I've started taking Wrodge on all my HE linos, and loving it. For one, my linos eventually end up..on the LOS, and Wrodge returns bashers to that lovely 1/9 chance of ending up on the ground (even if it's not got an armour roll).

I'm learning to go for a mix. Wrestle is better on the d-line, but sometimes you really want Block. Especially when you lay as much wood as I do. That's also why I was thinking Tackle before Diving Tackle, but I totally see it. Really changes the odds.

I wouldn't bother with an AG5 lino on an elf team.

IMO all elves benefit from Wrestle, Dodge, Fend. Try and negate the attition of bashers.

Some could go with Dauntless (as many of the elves lack BGs).

Really nice pieces get guard and side step.

Currently I have 3 linos on my WE team with Wrestle and Dodge and are about 10pts from their 3rd skills... hoping for Fend.

Now AG5 Catchers, Blitzers and Throwers is something else.

Leap becomes awesome and Safe Throw becomes god like. Mix in Nerves of Steal you can throw and hand off in difficult spots. And of course dancing through simple tackle zones means the players are really hard to pin down.

Why do my teams never get to play these ridiculous 'builds' with Nerves of Steel, Safe Throw and Fend on all their 'pieces'?

God I hate the Americanisation of Builds and Pieces. What's wrong with teams of players?

Don__Vito wrote:Why do my teams never get to play these ridiculous 'builds' with Nerves of Steel, Safe Throw and Fend on all their 'pieces'?

God I hate the Americanisation of Builds and Pieces. What's wrong with teams of players?

Shhh, don’t ruin it. I’m hoping to face a NoS, Strong Arm, passblock heavy team one day. Should be a great chance to farm a whole lot of spp’s and wrack up the casualties.

I’m with you on hating the use of “pieces” instead of players though. I associate it with the Podcasts as those are all American and a lot of European coaches are using it now.

Build has been used for ages in fantasy and sci-fi armies though, so I thought it was from that.

This is right at the tip top of my pet hates as well. I'm glad spub has given me someone to blame!

Don__Vito wrote:Why do my teams never get to play these ridiculous 'builds' with Nerves of Steel, Safe Throw and Fend on all their 'pieces'?

I'm pretty sure 90% + of this tactics forum is just made up for fun; on the excessively rare occasions that I poke my head around the door (I only had a look today because I noted your name and I thought something interesting may have happened, learning where this 'piece' rubbish has come from made it worth it) someone is recommending Break Tackle on a Skink or NOS on a Troll (or let's be honest, anything!) because it's 'situational'. Although if anyone takes note of this old nonsense, hurrah for the rest of us!

Filter for Smurf, and you'll see a lot less silliness. There are a number of BUILDS that suggest odd progression for one PIECE or another, but most of them at least purport to be gimmicky. I don't think those terms are uniquely American.

I find it funny, though, that the guy who so loves Nerves of Steel thinks I should bypass +AG.