Talk Fantasy Football

Hi all

I'm relatively new to BB as a whole (probably about 30 games registered) but have fallen in love with Necros both functionally and thematically. However, whilst I have read up on them fairly extensively I'm still finding myself somewhat lacking , particularly offensively. It just hasnt quite clicked for me, and most of my td's result more from defensive error than any particular brilliance of my own device so I was wondering if I can get some advice. If it helps any my team is roughly 1350tv with all positionals. +str ww (yay!), dodge on wight1, guard on wight2. Block on ww2, sure hands on ghoul 1.

Team development wise Im happy its just the actual execution on the pitch letting me down. I tend to get bogged down and stalled fairly easily, particularly if I cage for safety. I try to keep a wight/ww as a pair to either hunt/handoff from but they end up getting collared and knocked down v often.

What sorts of plans do you use on offence? A cage presumably against agile and more screens against bash? My problem with the latter is that once I mark up/get marked I dont trust to dodge away and lack the strength to take out the markers. Thus I find myself quickly outnumbered.

What roles do you envisage for your players, offensively? I usually try to pick up the ball with a ghoul (sure hands) and look to hand off to a ww tho they invariably find themselves the first piece to be marked. Wights tend to support any fights, particularly with guard, though perhaps i should use one for blitzing? Or alternatively perhaps I should keep the ww's closer together (currently i have one either side to give me a choice of flank to pursue) to allow one to blitz free the other?

Any advice given would be gratefully received i generally use diggers 'cage' offensive formation at the moment to start off with.

Thanks!

Hi Shaeffer!

Lots of (legitimate) questions!
Some quick suggestions:
-during the offense, I try to screen both the ball carrier AND the Wolves. Once the Wolves are marked my mobility/aggressivity is seriously checked. So I got 8 players screening, the carrier free to move and both Wolves out of reach, ready to pounce (blitz) on some juicy target.
Don't commit your Wolves early, lest the opponent can pile on them, but strike hard and flee back behind your screen, turn after turn. The claw menace is your best defense against bashing teams, in my opinion: if you keep clawing his av9 bruisers turn after turn the opponent's nerves can snap and he can overcommit to catch the wolf (time to outposition him, maybe dividing his team).

-hand offs... I'm pretty wary of them: these 3+ rolls are nerve wracking to me. I use them sparingly, even if I know that other coaches use them extensively.
When the team is young I sometimes bring the ball with a Wolf to force-skill him.

-to advance the cage I use the Golems.. again, it's me. Most people apparently avoid this. My reasoning is that once the Stand Firm "got the feet in the door" pushing his way in the sidelines, the opponent should: a) retreat the whole screen 1-2 steps. b) keep his position and use a sub-optimal curved screen. Here the "hinge" player is exposed to a diagonal attack from the wolves, ideally setting up a chain push and a crowd surf. c) Try to dislodge the Flesh Golem, and this is a risky business: he need some assist, and a push isn't enough. If he got unlucky and the Golem don't fall down, he's probably in a bad position (crowd surfing Wolves galore!).

Well, these are my first thoughts, sure other coaches can give you better suggestions

It's great you've got the defensive scoring down pat....

If you want to score quickly, try an assymetrical, overbalanced screen to the side of your choice (usually the opposing team's weak side).... A golem and werewolf on the wing and another golem supporting zombie in such a way that the zed can 2d block the second golem free to move downfield.... Behind the strong corner is as many non-fetching positionals as you can spare.... Spread zeds to cover the rest of the line.... Use your golems, wights and as many zeds as you can to screen the sidline scramble while the St4 wolf blitzes as deep as possible.... Surehand-off and run the sidelines.... This should be helped by your opponent's setting up three, or more, away from the sideline to avoid the crowd surf....

Rather than true caging, you might consider using your Zombies and Golems to hold a screen, so your more mobile players can break laterally when required. You don't have the muscle to brawl your way up the field and just reposition a few squares a turn, and you don't have the speed to lay out a series of positioning dilemmas and know that if worse comes to worst you can pull out one of several trick plays. But you do have enough brawn to establish a beachhead, and enough speedy players that if you get the right guys free you can reposition suddenly.

Here's a trio of tidbits that are all pretty much related.

1) Keep most of your slow players in the action: it's okay to get spread out a little, but MA4 has a hard time keeping up with MA7-8. Mark (or foul) prone guys with Zombies if they're near the action. Try to keep your Golems in a formation together between the hashmarks, or to use them to anchor the edges of a broad formation, with the intention of closing them into a tighter formation later on the initial play-side (I almost always pull a reverse, and then the Golems are there to lock guys in and give me a manpower edge in the other direction plus a bulwark back on the new offside, in case I have to double-reverse it). I like marking ST3 killer types with rookie or one-skill Golems, not a lot they can do pinned down like that.

2) Win the matchup game. That's why a lot of coaches think Necro are an advanced squad: your best hitters are also mostly your better ballers, and your cagers are just way too easy to take out of the play. Throw in positioning skills like Frenzy and Stand Firm, and a certain Strength-skill scarcity, and these guys really are only as good as you are. Double-screening is a key tool to get this done, keep your fast guys free for when the reverse comes.

3) Stay flexible with AG3 positional roles, until the players actually start building. Sure Hands/Blodge Ghoul is great, but you want to score with all 5-6 AG3 players. Stats on Ghouls and Weres just fit right in, but doubles on them and doubles or stats on Wights change your player balance, as you need a T/POMBer and some mobile Guard in a hurry, and Wights are the only ones who can quickly evolve into either on normals. You don't have to feed TDs to Zombies who are only good if they double, and the Golems can get their scores in garbage time, but the Wights and Weres all have to get in on the mix, because you need the skills they carry.

Shaeffer - I don't consider Necros to be a reliable caging team. I suggest they need to move the ball more quickly than a caging team. They seem to prefer screens to cages. The same can be said of some other teams, for example Norse.

I suggest you rely more on your defense, which you seem to enjoy, and be prepared to score relatively quickly on offense (when required by the situation). Stall only when you can do so reliably, and when it fits the match situation.

The Necros have one of the best mini-maxed teams in terms of movement. With just one hand-off, they can move the ball a very long way.

Hope that helps.

Defense wins blood bowl, so your issues with offense are at least the better place to have a problem. Here are some more tidbits:

1)Versus slower teams try reversing field from time to time. Your superior speed and the golem's stand firm will eventually get you an edge. If a situation become difficult you can often retreat the ball carrying ghoul safely out of range for a turn without losing all position on the line. This will not work versus faster teams, but you should still leave yourself some room to move laterally and any backfield lurkers should be attacked aggressively.

2)I find the full 8 turn grind often a little more difficult with necro than more traditional bash teams. Don't be afraid to make it a 6 turn score and have to play defense for a bit.

3)Just carry the ball the whole way with the ghoul unless you feel your options have dwindled and the hand-off play is a must. Rolling dice is where things go wrong generally.

4)Don't be afraid to feed your zombies to any player you'd rather avoid. To the extend the Zombies can take the abuse you can turn it into an 8 on 8 game, which will be to your advantage. If you go this route be sure when marking with the zombies that you are attempting to pull the annoying players away from the actual play if possible.

As for my what roles I use on offense, my golems anchor the path I intend to go, but sometimes this must be abandoned and they could get pulled out of the play. Zombies are there to get in the way, occasionally foul. Werewolves are the desired blitzers, but I prefer to cherry pick with them and keep them protected (one of mine is a perfect killer: block, jump up, +st, mb, po; the other is a crowd surfer: blodge, ss, dauntless). The wights are generally support that is a bit more mobile than the golems and occasionally a blitzer. I use one ghoul to carry the ball and the other is more utility piece. How developed the ghouls are will really impact your options for using them.

Many thanks for all the comments and advice so far, its much appreciated. I take on board whats been said about screening not caging, and will try to focus on this. The hardest part is trying to avoid getting bogged down. My natural instinct is to man mark wherever I can with zombies which ends up turning to a bashathon I often lose. By screening are we referring to sets of 1x2 columns as a preference?

Diggers suggestion about overloading one side is intriguing, though I imagine not something to do against a side with kick. My fear with that is a failed pickup/short kick on opposite side leaves me screwed before I even begin? Would someone be able to suggest an offensive formation for this? Im not quite sure where the balance of overloading and overcommitting is!!

Ive often seen people refer to blitzing with the werewolves for obvious reasons and it sounds like this is something to be done every turn. However, and this may just be a reflection on the much more expienced guys I play with, I rarely find targets that I can attack and get away from as well due to a lack of isolated targets. Ive been guilty in the past of picking the best of a bad bunch, but Im starting to think more about relying on Wights unless somethingobvious comes up? Most people I play with lurve the fouling, and a wolf stuck next to someone may as well sign his death warrant

Finally, Ive heard a lot from people about FG's 'anchoring' a push. Could you expand on that? My interpretation so far is that once a hole is made on one sideline (eg left side) one golem goes to the top left of that breach and another bottom right? (whether as a cage or otherwise). Is that roughly what you mean?

Again many thanks for the advice thus far.

Continuing advice can be had both at my Necrotacticum and here at the Necros vs the World of Blood Bowl thread....

Tackledummy has a suggestion for an offensive line on page 2 and I will take up this part of the thread (if you don't mind) over at the Necros vs the BB World thread....

Raise the Dead!