stabd firm on a Wild A., worth it ?

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 7:53 pm

Hi ppl,

Just want to ask a question wandering for long time in my head.

Do you people think stand firm is a good option on a wild animal ? (especially a rat ogre)

I explain : if he s trapped, or if you don t wantto block with him and he s near an opponent; just declare a blitz, then you colud dodge out without fearing a turnover. If he fail the dodge, his action is over. Sure you loose your blitz, but not your turn..

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:08 pm

Well it's a loophole and this issue is on the hotlist. Still, utilizing this combination seems to be contraray to your name...

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:10 pm

narkotic wrote:Well it's a loophole and this issue is on the hotlist. Still, utilizing this combination seems to be contraray to your name...

a loophole mean a sort of bug, isn t it ? Didn t knew that ... Ignore this post then.

And about my name i ma pure dodger, playing elves and dodging all the time ... The nick is just a fake

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:14 pm

As it stands it would work, but is it contary to the spirit or the rules? Well.....

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:15 pm

No a loophole is not a bug, it's just the combination of skills/situations which are not explicitely covered by either rules and the utilization may seem "beardy" or contraray to the sense of the rules.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:19 pm

narkotic wrote:No a loophole is not a bug, it's just the combination of skills/situations which are not explicitely covered by either rules and the utilization may seem "beardy" or contraray to the sense of the rules.

k, thx for the explanations, i won t use it then

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:20 pm

Of course, if the BBRC reports back in Oct and says it's an acceptable play, then it's a good skills combination.

Favouille · Post by **Favouille** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:21 pm

In my ligue, if a WA does a blitz, he must block BEFORE to move if he's in contact with a opponent. So it's not very interesting...

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:44 pm

well, i guess it depends on how often you choose to push players off the pitch w/ your WA. stand firm keeps them from going out themselves, but could leave you trapped on the sideline w/ no way of getting help (as they must move first). but what else are you going to take on a double? hmm... RSC, claw, tentacles, spikes, even very long legs or big hand could turn that guy into quite the fullback if you play it right. diving tackle could be another option, if they succeed w/ the -1 from prehensile tail, you have the option of another -2. so a 5 or better on a regularl 2+ dodge. and lets not forget leader, although w/ the coming rules review this could change.

slackman42

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:31 am

OMG, yes. Absolutely you should grab stand firm for the RO. I can save you from a turnover when the RO get's into a bad place. As for this being a "loophole", I don't see any reason not to use the stand firm skill in this situation since nearly everyone agrees that the wild animal trait is too harsh a penalty - which you're only slowing down with a trait. Seems quite balanced to me...

duff · Post by **duff** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 2:54 am

Favouille wrote:In my ligue, if a WA does a blitz, he must block BEFORE to move if he's in contact with a opponent. So it's not very interesting...

I think this is the most fluff-sensible way to play it. If the player is to agressive not to hit someone if he can, surely he's too agressive to step away from one victim to go thump someone else?

Asmodan · Post by **Asmodan** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:30 am

Well i like Stand Firm on my BIG GUY´s, never thought off that loophole though will definetly use it next time

Geggster · Post by **Geggster** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:46 am

Matsu wrote:OMG, yes. Absolutely you should grab stand firm for the RO. I can save you from a turnover when the RO get's into a bad place. As for this being a "loophole", I don't see any reason not to use the stand firm skill in this situation since nearly everyone agrees that the wild animal trait is too harsh a penalty - which you're only slowing down with a trait. Seems quite balanced to me...

Two wrongs don't make a right. I think that Wild Animal is too severe (and I've played Skaven once or twice) but I would leave it to the BBRC to fix in October rather than change it yourself.

I've gotta say that I think its definately "beardy" to dodge out with Stand Firm. Should you fail, you won't turnover, sure, but you won't perform the block either and the rules state that you must block if you start your turn adjacent to an opposing player. I for one think that the rules already cover this but hope for clarafication at the review.

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 1:01 am

Geggster wrote:Two wrongs don't make a right. I think that Wild Animal is too severe (and I've played Skaven once or twice) but I would leave it to the BBRC to fix in October rather than change it yourself.

You're assuming that it's NOT supposed to work that way. How am I supposed to know the mind of the designer? It's in the rules, and fairly clearly for that matter, so why wouldn't I play it that way? To me, it just seems like smart use of skills, not some grand scheme to defraud the game.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 am

Matsu wrote:To me, it just seems like smart use of skills, not some grand scheme to defraud the game.

The defence of the power gamer.

Using SF to avoid making a block is against the spirit of the WA rule - and its not like the WA rule has been around for ages. GW are notoriously bad at writing tight rules so you have to interpret them to an extent.