Talk Fantasy Football

First post, no pressure...

I'm about to start playing Blood Bowl, basically for the first time (I played three times about 12 years ago). I've got to buy a team, get them made up and painted, and then play in a league with some friends. There will be 5 other teams: Chaos, halflings, elves, nuns, and one other. I read the thread that suggested learning with humans or orcs, but would these teams be competitive against the ones already in the league? I sort of like the idea of Dark Elves and Amazons, and also like Skaven. Should I stick to the original advice or try one of the things I liked? Any discussion read enthusiastically.

How many games would people say it takes to learn the game? At what point could I start diversifying if I started with humans or orcs?

Welcome back to the world of Blood Bowl

It sounds like a fairly mixed league (Chaos - bashy, Elves - dodgy, Halflings - stunty, Nuns... are they being played as Humans, Amazons or something else?) so Humans and Orcs should be competitive in that environment. Humans and Orcs also come with handy reference sheets

Two questions to ask yourself are "Do I like the miniatures?" and "Do I like the background?". This is especially true if you haven't worked out what style of play suits you best. It is important to get a team that you genuinely like for some reason. If you don't you may have problems motivating yourself to get those players painted.

Remember that there are other manufacturers with great miniatures out there (as your league demonstrates with the Nun team). Take a look at Shadowforge and Neomics amongst others for alternative miniatures that are competitively priced and might appeal to you more. Both Neil at Shadowforge and Jens at Neomics are quite friendly and offer excellent service. Goblinforge also has some great alternative players (but no complete teams yet).

Humans and Orcs are recommended for several reasons -
1) They come with the box set. You don't need to spend any more money unless you want to, which can be an important consideration.

2) With time, you can make either of those teams into what you want - running team, pass oriented team, bashy team... you name it and with patience you can turn them into something to suit you.

3) They are generally forgiving. As they are not oriented towards any one task, Humans and Orcs don't do anything really poorly (or exceptionally well on the other side of the coin). You can make mistakes and still have the strength, movement, agility or whatever to dig yourself out of that hole. It doesn't what you do with Khemri, for example, they just won't pass, dodge or move well.

If neither of those teams truly lights your candle, by all means look to another.
Dwarves are not all that slow despite their stunty little legs and can hold their own.

Elves are problematic for me to recommend to a beginning or returning player in a league environment. The rosters that you would be able to afford from the start tend to read 'lineman, lineman, lineman...' which is great for spreading those skills around but you will keep staring at the more characterful players and think that though this is fun that you really want to be playing with those cool guys that were left in the box.

Skaven offer a good deal of movement and decent agility but at the expense of armour and strength.

Norse and Amazons are both variations on the Human team but as they start with block and dodge respectively, they have a starting leg up which fades as the other teams in the league get skills to counter their advantages.

And the list goes on... Look around the site as there are 'how to' guides for most teams (skills, starting rosters, etc). For painting inspiration, look at http://www.bloodbowl.org which shows some lovely painted and converted teams.

I guess, just avoid the more difficult teams like Vampires (When they work, they work. Otherwise they really can suck - literally and figuratively) and remember to have a good time.

You can learn to play with any team, the reason Humans and Orcs are usually advised is because they are the most all-round teams and so you learn about the different aspects of BB quickly. You can start with any team, and looking at your preferences you'll start learning the agility game first.

With regard to the league you're entering, no team should do worse than any other.I would pass on dark elves as a first team, as they are fairly difficult to play well. They're vulnarable and expensive.

It takes quite some experience to use the potential of elf teams enough to make them competitive. The same can be said about skaven. That's why I don't recommend them to new players - you'll lose a lot of games anyway.

Amazons, though, is a powerful team that is easy to play. You'll learn more by playing humans, but 'zons is not a bad choice.

Thanks, people, for you rapid and very informative posts. I agree especially that I don't want to spend money on miniatures, then go through the grind of painting them (badly) or paying for them to get painted (expensive) if they're only there to cut my teeth on. I reckon the trick is to get the team that I like that actually is ok to learn with. As such, I think I'll have a go at the Amazons. I'll also look up the manufacturers you recommended.

Please keep posting advice on this thread, I'm an enthusuastic scholar of the game and would actually quite like to win this little league we've started.

Well, if the other players are more skilled than you are, you better not hope to win many games at the start. It takes quite some time to learn all the tricks and it takes ages to master the game. So if you are the "newest" player, just take it easy, play a few fun games and try again next season, when you have gotten a good grip on all the rules and tactics. Just dont let it get you down, if you lose a couple of games. BB is there for the long run and the sooner you realize, winning is not necessarily needed to have a fun game, the closer you are to earn your first win. A good spirit helps more in this gmae than you might imagine.

just to throw in a voice of dissent, my first team was dark elves, and while I did lose my first 2 games, i did just fine after that. i picked dark elves mainly because i liked the figs, and imagined myself as having a more "fluid" play style, as opposed to the grind-out style you'd get from dwarves and the like.

it worked for me. my advice, if you ARE going to buy a team, is to go with your gut about what style you think you'd play and what figs you like. If the 'Zons are that team for you, then by all means, do it.

The teams that Starforge produce (Nuns, Bunnies and Orcs): are they played with new rules or do you play them as existing ones (Humans, Amazons and orcs, maybe)?

most people "proxy" figures like shadowforge minis by playing nuns as humans, female orcs as orcs obviously, Valkyries as Norse, etc etc etc. However, there are "experimental" roster lists out there for these figures as their own team (one of the players in my league keeps trying to get me to allow him to play a Nun roster). But unless the commish is open to those teams, most leagues will force people to play only teams that are listed in the LRB, no matter which figures you use to represent your players.

so to answer your question... ask your commish

The other thing to remember about non-GW miniatures is that it is polite to "introduce" your team to your opponent before the match. (Actually it is polite to do it regardless) Show which miniatures are your blitzers, catchers, throwers, linemen, etc... and if any have developed additional skills then point those out as well.

You may wish to consider using baserings (colouring the edge of your bases) to distinguish the positions. This existed in 2nd Edition when the miniatures that came with the boxed sets were all the same plastic model for each race.

Traditional Colours-

White - Thrower
Yellow - Catcher
Green - Blocker
Red - Blitzer
Grey - Lineman

You can, of course, use whatever system makes the most sense to you.

I also started out with Dark Elves as my first team, and I have played them since. I love those little buggers.

I think a elven team can be a good beginners team, the AG-advantage really helps out alot. But, ( as I realised soon) if you choose the wrong skills, they will really hurt later on. Thats where experience comes in.

There are plenty of strategy guides on the net, have a look around.
Good luck

Here's a couple websites I found which gave me some excellent ideas, which I don't think I would have found on my own any time soon.

http://www.midgardbb.com/Tactics/basics_1.html
http://www.midgardbb.com/Tactics/basics_2.html
http://www.midgardbb.com/Tactics/defence.html
http://www.midgardbb.com/Tactics/offence.html

Some very good general info as well as drive setup ideas. Hope you find them useful!