limiting stat increases

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:45 pm

Three things to consider with PBBL.

1) Fouling such stars ... ejection overall in the PBBL is lower so if you don't get rid of him the first time ... its not so bad to try again. (whereas with LRB you really need to make the first one count)

2) Dauntless is a skill. Grab a couple dauntless players ... makes dealing with ST upgrades a lot easier and only costs 20k to put on a player.

3) Worth. The PBBL makes a player with 2 ST upgrades worth the same as that player with 5 normal skill rolls. Thus you will be giving up a lot of team value to keep such a player around.

Galak

Cloggy · Post by **Cloggy** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:55 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote: 3) Worth. The PBBL makes a player with 2 ST upgrades worth the same as that player with 5 normal skill rolls. Thus you will be giving up a lot of team value to keep such a player around.

Well, it helps in the sense that now the TR/TV more adequately represents the strenght of the team. Still I would rather have the guy with the +STATS then a 5 skilled player in most cases.

I'm no expert on the PBBL rules, but in LRB4 there are not that many player types that actually benefit much from gaining a 5th skill.

"Ooo, I can get pass block for my guard/MB/piling on/Break tackle cd blocker"

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:23 pm

Cloggy wrote:I'm no expert on the PBBL rules, but in LRB4 there are not that many player types that actually benefit much from gaining a 5th skill.

"Ooo, I can get pass block for my guard/MB/piling on/Break tackle cd blocker"

A Dauntless, Mighty Blow, Guard, Piling On, Claws Beastman would be a true horror on the pitch and the 5th skill would be just as important to the overall punch as the others. For a CD to be the same you'd just need one doubles rolls for Claws.

Galak

Geoff Watson · Post by **Geoff Watson** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:49 am

Personally, I'd consider getting rid of stat increases altogether.

They make luck in team advancement too important, and you can end up with players that don't really 'fit' the team (high ST elves, high AG dwarves) etc.

Geoff.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:13 am

Geoff Watson wrote:...and you can end up with players that don't really 'fit' the team (high ST elves, high AG dwarves) etc.

For me that's just part of the fun of the game!

Str 4 halflings running amock! AG 5 dwarves passing long bombs! It will only happen ever so rarely and these players will be such big targets that their life expectancy will very low, and that just adds a lot of flavour to the game.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:38 am

For LRB a house rule increasing the ageing roll by one category (so ageing on 3- for the first skill) might help if it's a real problem and coaches are foul-shy. For the fluff lovers: the player had to train really hard to achieve this stats increase, giving him a higher risk of injuring himself in training. It would be an ugly patch job though.

I agree with Tuern on the fun of stats increases, the limits in the current rule book are sufficient for most leagues I think. ST4 halflings are hilarious, just like AG5 dwarves or MA6 zombies. Yes, they're scary as well, but so are dirty players

#crunch · Post by **#crunch** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:59 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Three things to consider with PBBL.

1) Fouling such stars ... ejection overall in the PBBL is lower so if you don't get rid of him the first time ... its not so bad to try again. (whereas with LRB you really need to make the first one count)

2) Dauntless is a skill. Grab a couple dauntless players ... makes dealing with ST upgrades a lot easier and only costs 20k to put on a player.

3) Worth. The PBBL makes a player with 2 ST upgrades worth the same as that player with 5 normal skill rolls. Thus you will be giving up a lot of team value to keep such a player around.

Galak

ST increases can be addressed this way. I'm pretty sure I don't like adding incentives to fouling and neither making dauntless available as a skill, but that's a matter of taste. (And I think that changing dauntless to d6+ST and incompatibilizing it with horns isn't so bad at all!)

AG5 players, respectively AG4 stunties, remain a problem, IMO. Dodging into a TZ at 2+ breaks a very beautiful concept of the game - the skillful positioning of tackle zones.

Xzar · Post by **Xzar** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:09 pm

#crunch wrote:
AG5 players, respectively AG4 stunties, remain a problem, IMO. Dodging into a TZ at 2+ breaks a very beautiful concept of the game - the skillful positioning of tackle zones.

Any snotling can do it.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 4:12 pm

I knew it: Snotlings are broken!

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:11 pm

AG5 players are what DT and Tacle were invented for.

I'd rather play PBBL than play without the diversity that Stat Increases bring.

#crunch · Post by **#crunch** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:53 pm

Xzar wrote:
#crunch wrote:
AG5 players, respectively AG4 stunties, remain a problem, IMO. Dodging into a TZ at 2+ breaks a very beautiful concept of the game - the skillful positioning of tackle zones.
Any snotling can do it.

All right, point conceded.

I was thinking more along the lines of AG4 skinks and AG5 Gutter Runners who combine dodge and high AG with high MA.

DT is too weak IMO if you have to go prone and all it does is raising the difficulty of a dodge from a 2+ to a 3+, as it does with an AG5 player.

Hmm.

I guess I'm sort of in a minority position here. Anyway, nice arguing with you guys. Cheers!

everyman · Post by **everyman** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:28 pm

Out here in Oakland we find the imbalances created by stat increases self correcting. The Wood Elf team with four +ST increases starts seeing alot more of their opponents showing up with chainsaws.

Our league has been running for 8 seasons now (4 years), and over the long term stat increase issues work themself out. In a shorter setting (i.e. tournament) probability should ensure that balances don't get too out'a whack (most of the time).

manusate · Post by **manusate** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:25 pm

narkotic wrote: Even I had a AG6 Gutter Runner and ST4/AG4 Hobgoblins in my team at some point, they were fantastic to play with but I always had a feeling that this was "wrong" in terms of game balance.

Same feeling here. I've ignored stat increases many times in order to avoid that feeling . But most players don't understand that.

Capping stat increases at +1 per stat sounds good to me, but I don't think that that should be enforced by the rules until stat increases prove to be a problem. And I don't think they ever will under the PBBL rules.

I will use this +1 cap as personal 'aesthetical' choice, though.

Enjoy!

Redeemer31 · Post by **Redeemer31** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:47 pm

Personally, I like the stat increases. Yes it could make a team much more powerful but isn't that part of the game? I mean, look at the NFL; you obviously have some players who are much better than others. Some of their 'stats' are obviously better than others (have a higher MV or STR or AGI, whatever). Is that 'unfair' or 'wrong'? No, it's part of the game. You just have to keep an eye out for them constantly, cover them with more men or, worst comes to worst, make sure they have an unfortunate 'accident'.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:10 pm

I don't feel that stat increases destroy the balance of the game. If you get some +ST elves, they still won't be as bashy as orcs, if they get +AG they just improve everything they are good at. Similarly +AG dwarves won't make as effective a passing side as elves. It will however make the teams more interesting and varied, and allow the use of some different tactics.