Beasts of Chaos Team

[vandalworks]

i've been kinda converting beasties up for a while, getting slowly there haha.

but centigors.... my idea is this....

0-2 7 3 1 8 , horns, sprint, bone head, breaktackle. 90,000

agility low, and bonehead to show their drunkeness, but i see them as being able to dodge a bit with their strength and stubborness, so break tackle to help this. sprint, so they have the option to go for an extra square of movement but its risky without sure feet.

ungors should be simple,

7 3 3 7 50,000

basically the same as skaven linemen. no horns, to show how they're under developed beastmen. but ofbviously they can take mutations. AV of 7 to show they're not as tough as their older brethren but smaller and slightly faster, hence +1 MA

any thoughts?

[Rituro]

We threw ideas around for a while here regarding an all-beastman team. See if that tickles the brain at all.

[Joemanji]

The more of these discussions I see, the more convinced I am that the MBBL2 Beastman roster is the best. They'd have to have only 1 Minotaur in the official setting obviously, though it might as well be none for all the use they'd get from him.

Though another great idea I heard was the one that almost happened ... rename Chaos as Beastmen, renaming CWs as Bestigors (or preferably Blockers), with maybe -1AV, but + 1MV & Horns. Add some Ungors as in the above roster for flavour, and then add a Chaos Human or Chaos Pact roster. I really love the 6238 statline, it is something new for the game, and if there is one thing an Ungor should do it is add Agiity access.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

I'll never stop asking for a Chaos Spawn Big Guy. A big ST 6 guy that uses the scatter template for movement. Make him badass and give him mutations on regular rolls, normal skills on doubles (or however it works now) and absolutely no control over his movement.

That's a Chaos big guy. Give the Minotaurs to a Beastman roster.

[vandalworks]

i' not sure about 6238. i always thought there was a sort of thing where you had to have strength of 3+ for av 8 or higher. thats why its not in the league? mite add some flavour though i suppose, but ungors arent supposed to be as tough and resilient as beastmen, which is why i think more like a skaven lineman would be better, perhaps keep the movement to 6? no dodge either, as i feel they're more likely to hit people than use agility to get away from people, theres are beasts after all.

bestigors i like, but perhaps -1 ag. i think bestigors would be seen by the herd as the strong tough beasts, not for being able to pick the ball up etc. so maybe 6428, horns, block, 100,000gp

mite seema little cheap but they shouldnt advance in skils as much as other players like this, as the lower agility stops from getting as many spp.

[DDogwood]

I'm all for a Beastman team, but I think it's important to define what role they're supposed to play. It would also make sense to develop it in conjunction with a Hordes of Chaos team.

For Beastmen, I'd imagine that the Beastmen would act pretty much like regular linemen, the Ungors would be catcher-types, and the Centigors would basically be blitzers. I'd consider making the Bestigors into blockers, like the Black Orcs, rather than into super-blitzers. Maybe something like this:

0-16 Beastmen 6/3/3/8 Horns GSM 60k
0-4 Ungors 6/2/3/7 Dodge AM 50k
0-2 Bestigors 5/4/2/8 Horns GSM 90k
0-2 Centigors 6/3/2/8 Horns, Frenzy, Sprint GM 70k
0-1 Minotaur 5/5/2/8 Horns, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Thick Skull, Wild Animal, Loner SM 150k
Rerolls 70k

This would give a fairly fast hitting team, with a decent running game, but without the reliability that Block players bring. I think that the Centigors' drunkenness can be represented by having Frenzy, and by having Sprint without Sure Feet. They can't be much drunker than, say, the whole Norse team.

For a human-based Chaos team, I'd look at combining Norse players with Chaos Warriors:

0-16 Linemen 6/3/3/7 Block GM 50k
0-4 Chaos Warriors 5/4/3/9 GSM 100k
0-1 Chaos Troll 4/5/1/9 Mighty Blow, Loner, Really Stupid, Regenerate SM 110k
Rerolls 60k (or 70k?)

This team would lose some of the strength and durability of the standard Chaos team, but would give the ability to have a more reliable starting team.

[Joemanji]

0-4 Ungors 6/2/3/7 Dodge AM 50k
0-2 Bestigors 5/4/2/8 Horns GSM 90k
0-2 Centigors 6/3/2/8 Horns, Frenzy, Sprint GM 70k

This would give a fairly fast hitting team, with a decent running game, but without the reliability that Block players bring. I think that the Centigors' drunkenness can be represented by having Frenzy, and by having Sprint without Sure Feet. They can't be much drunker than, say, the whole Norse team.

I don't like the Ungors, they are just Underworld Goblins. Bestigors great, though perhaps call them Blockers? This is BB after all. I like the idea for the Centigor. Sprint and Frenzy makes them less reliable than a normal player without making them a Big Guy. The team will have enough trouble getting any value from the Mino. I was going to say that a ST4 blitz + Frenzy used to be a no-no, but I think the Ulfwerner has overruled that now. Centigors will need S access though, because without Break Tackle they are going to get bogged down very easily indeed, and will be paying for MV6 and Sprint for nothing.

For a human-based Chaos team, I'd look at combining Norse players with Chaos Warriors:

0-16 Linemen 6/3/3/7 Block GM 50k
0-4 Chaos Warriors 5/4/3/9 GSM 100k
0-1 Chaos Troll 4/5/1/9 Mighty Blow, Loner, Really Stupid, Regenerate SM 110k

Linemen are unimaginative and taking too much from WFB rather than BB history IMO. Chaos used to have standard Human linemen with M access. Plus Chaos shouldn't have easy access to Block. Like the Troll though.

[DDogwood]

I don't like the Ungors, they are just Underworld Goblins.

I don't think that this is necessarily a problem. After all, aren't Vampire Thralls just Hobgoblins?

Bestigors great, though perhaps call them Blockers? This is BB after all.

Yeah, I don't really care what they're called, although it seems that people really want "Bestigors" on the list. It just seemed to me that Bestigors are to regular Beastmen as Black Orcs are to regular Orcs, so it kind of makes sense to design them as blockers instead of beastmen who are better in every way.

Centigors will need S access though, because without Break Tackle they are going to get bogged down very easily indeed, and will be paying for MV6 and Sprint for nothing.

That was actually part of the idea. I don't think that Centigors should be the central players on a Beastman team, and giving them Strength access would basically turn them into mobile Guards on a team that already has plenty of Strength access.

Linemen are unimaginative and taking too much from WFB rather than BB history IMO. Chaos used to have standard Human linemen with M access. Plus Chaos shouldn't have easy access to Block.

If they were Human linemen with Mutation access, the team would be almost identical to the current Chaos team. I think that giving them Norse linemen would fit well with both Blood Bowl and WFB (the connection between Norsca and Chaos has always been close in WFB). Giving them fragile linemen with Block changes the dynamic of the Chaos team quite a bit, making them much more reliable in the short term but harder to coach in the long term (the lack of Strength skills and the lower AV means that they can't just develop as a powerful hitting team).

Just my thoughts, though.

[vandalworks]

been thinking about teh chaos linemen thing. norse for me isnt right, they're norse players after all. and linemen dont work either.

my thought, is that marauders should be a bit tougher than humans, but not quite as clever. maybe a cross between humans and dwarfs?

6328 50,000 come with thick skull. and access to general and mutations skills.


and ungors, if you're going to give them strength 2, give them movement of 7. they're hardly goblins!!!! i do think they should be 7337 though.

[DDogwood]

my thought, is that marauders should be a bit tougher than humans, but not quite as clever. maybe a cross between humans and dwarfs?

6328 50,000 come with thick skull. and access to general and mutations skills.

Well, that would leave the Chaos Marauders team with only 4 players with AG>2, and I don't see any reason why anyone would want to play them instead of a "standard" Chaos team. The idea of using the Norse lineman stats is to make a team that isn't the same as Chaos, and isn't the same as Norse - otherwise, why not just use the current Norse team and call them "Marauders of Chaos"?

and ungors, if you're going to give them strength 2, give them movement of 7. they're hardly goblins!!!! i do think they should be 7337 though.

Why? Is there background on the ungors saying that they are as fast as Skaven? If they aren't ST2, then they might as well be removed from the team altogether.

[Glucksbar]

Well, I have played the following team in a league with twenty coaches and it was pretty balanced. It might need a few tweaks, but it's unique and fun to play.


0-12 Gors (Lineman):
60k; 6, 3, 3, 8; Horns; G, S, M (they are the normal beastmen of the chaos team)

0-2 Bestigors (Blocker):
100k; 4, 4, 2, 9; Horns; G, S, M (hard blockers, like Black Orcs with Horns and later Mutations)

0-2 Centigors (Blitzer):
90k, 7, 3, 2, 8; Horns, Frenzy, Bone Head, Tackle, Thick Skull; G, S, M (these guys are fun. hard hitters, but often too drunk to act)

0-4 Ungors (Runner):
40k, 6, 2, 3, 6; Side Step, Stunty, Right Stuff; A, M (this is a stunty without dodge. Side Step shows how Ungors take cover behind the bigger Gors)

0-1 Dragon Ogre (Big Guy):
160k, 6, 5, 2, 8; Loner, Prehensile Tail, Bone Head, Throw Team Mate, Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Always Hungry; S
(DOs are so old, that they merely mutate, so no Mutations for him. Ungors are not really small enough to throw them, but who listens to an Ungor? When the DO recognizes, that the Ungor is too heavy, he just takes a bite or two and then throws the rest)

RR 70k


Bestigors and Centigors might be 10k over their calculated cost, but it's only fair to make a possible ST5 blitzer a bit more expensive.


Edited the DO, because of his uberness

[cyagen]

Like your team a lot Gluckbar, what is there record in the league?

[Glucksbar]

It was even, but we didn't finish the league. I think i won 4 out of 10 games, 3 draws and 3 losses or about that.
So, in our league environment, they worked pretty good.
I played Humans, DE, Ogres, Chaos, Norse, Dwarves, 2xWoodelves, rest I don't remember, 'cause this was some time ago. I tweaked the team a bit after LRB5 came out. The highend costs of Centis and Bestis, for example, 'cause they were too cheap.

But as far as my axperience is with it, it was a well rounded team and I would play it again, if they were available.

[tenwit]

0-1 Dragon Ogre (Big Guy):
130k, 6, 5, 2, 8; Loner, Prehensile Tail, Bone Head, Throw Team Mate, Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Always Hungry; G, S

A LOT better than an ogre or a kroxigor, but cheaper? Nononono. His only "downside" is AV8. He's got PT and TTM? 6MA and 2AG? That's a 170k big guy guy. Maybe 160k 'cos the rerolls are so expensive, but no less than that. G access? Suddenly he's worth more than Morg'n'Thorg. No, this is not a feasible option.

[Glucksbar]

0-1 Dragon Ogre (Big Guy):
130k, 6, 5, 2, 8; Loner, Prehensile Tail, Bone Head, Throw Team Mate, Thick Skull, Mighty Blow, Always Hungry; G, S

A LOT better than an ogre or a kroxigor, but cheaper? Nononono. His only "downside" is AV8. He's got PT and TTM? 6MA and 2AG? That's a 170k big guy guy. Maybe 160k 'cos the rerolls are so expensive, but no less than that. G access? Suddenly he's worth more than Morg'n'Thorg. No, this is not a feasible option.

Yepp, you're right with this. He was made in the time of LRB 3, when Big Guys could have general Skills, or I just blew that.
Yes, he's way too cheap in LRB 5 calculation, so I think he would be at 160k without G access. Edited in my original Post.