Skills From The Tournament

[SillySod]

Quick note before I say anything else. This is just meant to be a sheet of ideas thrown up by the tournament and talking to the people there. The stunty one was a brainchild of NoobW but despite that I actually like it more the more I think about it.

I dont think that Ag4 stunty is broken but I do think that it can very definately make or break a stunty team in a way that is not necessarily desirable. Considering just how good I find it on halflings and goblins on the old ogre team I do wonder how magnificent an agility 4 skink would be both because its not on a handicapped team and because skinks are so unbelievably fast. I remember talk of how stunty as a mutation on gutter runners was broken....

Mighty Tackle and Dwarfs masacring stunties.... by the time dwarfs are getting their third skill I doubt that many of the squashy ones are going to make it through a game in any case. Would this skill really hurt elves more than (say) mighty blow or tackle? This skill is likely to be used to make your opponent think before making a "what if?" dodge or a deliberate "even if I go down I wont get hurt" dodge.

Roll Opponent is pretty much strictly a utility skill though it might be scary in large numbers it wont be worth its TV in large amounts. Remember that to roll an opponent into the crowd you have to approach them from exactly the right angle and probably use your blitz in the process.

Professional Dive is an odd one to balance, another idea of NoobW's I was hoping that someone would step forward and have a go at balancing it or if he could clarify it himself. Something that made a sneaky git less likely to be sent off would be cool. Please do this for any of the proposals

Blatent foul I suspected would be contraversial. I can't think of many players with strength access who are very sacraficial. Dwarfs need their numbers, big guys are lots of TV anyway and other teams tend to need their positionals for guard and so on, so it still feels like a nice skill for me. The problem would be balancing it for chaos pact, beastmen, and the odd zombie that picks the skill up. I dont think that making it the equivalent of claw would cut it for an auto send off and it begins to lack its flavour, personally I quite liked the suggestion of making it a re-roll for either the armour or injury roll.

So, any more thoughts or modifications to them etc?

[PubBowler]

Mighty Tackle (S) - this player is a mean tackler and knows how to bring opponents down hard as they turn and run or try to rush past. If an opposing player leaves their tackle zone and fails the dodge then add 1 to either the resulting armour or injury roll.

I'm disavowing all knowledge of this one

[Joemanji]

First up the skills and skill adjustments because skills are fun.

Mighty Tackle (S) - this player is a mean tackler and knows how to bring opponents down hard as they turn and run or try to rush past. If an opposing player leaves their tackle zone and fails the dodge then add 1 to either the resulting armour or injury roll.
I like this skill alot, somehow it feels right.

It seems fine to me, although maybe a little dull. I can't see it getting that much use.

Proffesional Dive (G) - a liar to the core this player is excellent at getting opponents sent off. Instead of an action they may place themselves prone and make an adjacent opposing player roll to see if they get sent off.
Add move to this? make it only work vs DPs? add potential risk if the player gets sent off and gives the diver a "nudge"?

As Jural says, the risk vs reward ratio is off, although the idea is fine (and has been around a while). I just don't think you can tie a D6 roll to a sending off (=BH). Too good for the diver. Perhaps send the target to the sin bin so he can return for the next drive?

No to Stunty. AG4 stunties are fine and fun IMO.

Roll Opponent (G) - rather than making a block the player may push an adjacent prone player back one square according to the normal pushback rules.
Just to add that extra element to the positional game, notice that you can roll a friendly player as well as surf opponents refusing to stand. A handy skill for when there are lots of prone players effectively blocking a pathway.

A bit weak as a skill. Nice idea though. Maybe the mechanism could be that you can throw a block at a prone player, with the caveat that you can only pushback (no AV rolls). Probably -1 ST on the target as he is prone. But again, nobody is going to pick that over Block, Tackle, Guard etc.

Blatent Foul (S) - The player may make an extremely nasty foul. When fouling the player may declare that they are making a blatent foul, this is an ordinary foul action but they may add +2 to either the armour or injury roll. This stacks with dirty player. However this kind of foul is pretty obvious and the player is automatically sent off, if they would normally have been sent off then they also miss the next game. In event of GTR the opposing crowd remove them although they will be fine at the end of the game.
A killer skill, one for ogres and trolls and so on... when a troll jumps up and down on your face you're going to know

Wrong direction IMO. I think there should be a move to make tactical fouling (i.e. for a stun) more viable, rather than just giving more options that cause damage.

I.e. if you only Stun an opponent on a foul then you are sent to the sin bin, and can return for the next drive.

Cheers
Joe

[Purplegoo]

I'm all for tactics being brought back into fouling too (to answer that last point) - but it seems to me the way to do that is to reinstate it as a weapon (i.e. LRB 4 rules), keep GTR as it is, bring back the eye (i.e. the tactical element), and make send off rolls with the eye 2+, and maybe even 4+ without. Fouling then becomes meaningful again, but a calculated, tactical risk. As it is now, seems to me the best use is attritional or at the end of the first half when you have a numbers advantage. Strikes me a layer of strategy needs to be put back in.

Of course, that's a personal view, and the fouling debate could rage on for hours, I guess we shouldn't veer off topic!

I wouldn't take any of those skills listed in all likelihood, so I can't see a need for them. Mighty Tackle is neat, but there must be better options on skilling players! As for the fouling stuff, read above for my view there. In my (albeit brief) LRB 5 experience, seems to me the main bits to fix up are Riot (yuck - just ruins games, never met a coach that likes this one), fouling (that's a personal one I suppose), and I'm not mad keen on High Kick either. I'll spare you the 'I hate Amazons' stuff - as it seems they're here to stay as they are. That list still bores me to tears... That's all low TV stuff though (apart from the 'Zons), not played with inducements etc. yet. Lots of other little changes and rosters have been good. Probably 70/30 in favour at the low TVs.

AG 4 Stunty isn't "broken", but I agree with the Silly view that it's too make or break, more so than is desirable. Anyhoo - some kind of house rule would go in place here for me. Yours looks ok.

[SillySod]

Mighty Tackle (S) - this player is a mean tackler and knows how to bring opponents down hard as they turn and run or try to rush past. If an opposing player leaves their tackle zone and fails the dodge then add 1 to either the resulting armour or injury roll.

I'm disavowing all knowledge of this one

Ah, so you're Dave right? Sorry, I have trouble remembering names in real life so matching up names, other names, and faces is tricky

Purplegoo, I think I'd take mighty tackle on something like a dwarf longbeard or a player with diving tackle or prehensile tail. Rat Ogres, chaos beastmen, and blitzers with shadowing come to mind.... although I did grin a bit when I thought about a Kroxigor with mighty diving tackle

I agree that I'd like fouling to return as a weapon, albeit with much higher risks than before.

[PubBowler]

Mighty Tackle (S) - this player is a mean tackler and knows how to bring opponents down hard as they turn and run or try to rush past. If an opposing player leaves their tackle zone and fails the dodge then add 1 to either the resulting armour or injury roll.

I'm disavowing all knowledge of this one

Ah, so you're Dave right? Sorry, I have trouble remembering names in real life so matching up names, other names, and faces is tricky

Yep, that's me.
But no need for the apology, can't remember giving you my NAF/TBB name.

[plasmoid]

BTW Mighty Tackle is not a good skill.
We had that ability linked up to a more useful ability as 1 skill. And when the skill got taken, it wasn't for the tackling AV/inj modifier.

I had a few on my dwarf team that season, and in something like 40 games it earned me 1 casualty.

Not worth it.
Cheers
Martin

PS, oh yeah, the fouling skills are soooo unbalanced.

[Purplegoo]

I agree that I'd like fouling to return as a weapon, albeit with much higher risks than before.

Just to clarify - I think it still is a weapon, but rather than the surgical knife that it was before, it's now a big blunt club. With no eye, the teams that benefit most from fouling (Regen teams with cheapo linemen) can just throw foul after foul with fodder without much skill or thought when they get to 13/14 guys or have a numbers advantage on the field. Yes, a foul may not have the +2/+2 meanness anymore - but it does have that attritional edge. I'd rather have it back as a tactical battle of eye shifting, only with greater risk and reward.

However.... I think that horse has bolted!

I'd still not give MT to a Longbeard. Getting an MA 4 player to stick to that Elven assist (which is how I'd imagine using such a player, the ball itself will be better protected / better covered by DT) just in the hope it falls over and gets squished? Nah. You'd only be dodging away with AG 4 or on the last action of your turn with AG 3 or less, by which time the tactical stuff has passed your 'Beard by. And most players that can get tails or DT can pick better skills, IMO. But, each to his own.