Amazons

[Ulrikk]

Agility access is interesting... but I don't understand why everybody wants them to be less bashy and more agile than normal humans. Remember the basis for the stories of amazons - clicky.

Those girls were hardcore!! ...Invading neighbors to steal men, inventing the battleaxe, amputating one of their breasts to be better at using a bow and spear. Also remember Xena.

According to the Warhammer fluff, they are descendants of the Norse - and we all know how bashy they are!!

There really is no reason why they should be less bashy than humans.

[Daron]

There are many ways to change the roster and also many arguments not to change it. But there are still a couple of arguments thinking about them is good. So when we habe a look at others rosters who have lineman/thrower/catcher/blitzer there are some 'rules' of building them.

- Linemans are the basis

- throwers have lineman stats with pass and surehands (to a max of 2 skills)

- catchers have lineman stats with catch (and dodge if they habe ST2) plus MA+1 oder MA+2 (with ST2)

- blitzers have also block and either MA+1 or AV+1


For this we will get the following roster for amazons:

0-12 linewoman 6 3 3 7 dodge G / ASP 50k
0-2 thrower 6 3 3 7 dodge, pass GP / AS 70k
0-2 catcher 7 3 3 7 dodge, catch GA / SP 90k
0-4 blitzer 6 3 3 8 dodge, block GS / AP 100k

This roster has only slightly changes to the old one, but is not so boring imo. Catchers are faster, Blitzers are tougher and the stats are nearly the same.

[Carnis]

Linewomen 6337 50k Jump Up GA/SP
Catchers 8237 90k Catch, Dodge, Jump Up GA/SP
Throwers 6337 70k Sure Hands, Pass, Jump Up GAP/S
Blitzers 7337 90k Wrestle, Jump Up GAS/P
Rerolls 50k

That gives a fast team with universal Ag access - meaning its easy to develop into the fast passing team that they ought to be (IMO).

I actually quite like this one. It would need AV8 blitzers though, maybe 7338 at 0-2 or 6338 at 0-4. Do they all need GA access, though? Liners/Throwers too?

0-12 linewoman 6 3 3 7 dodge G / ASP 50k
0-2 thrower 6 3 3 7 dodge, pass GP / AS 70k
0-2 catcher 7 3 3 7 dodge, catch GA / SP 90k
0-4 blitzer 6 3 3 8 dodge, block GS / AP 100k

This would just be the current problematic and dull amazon roster on steroids!

[lerchey]

I had read this thread previously, but never posted as I had never played 'zons. Until last night. Player a 110 TV team of zons against a 110 dark elf team. We each were given 2 skills to add in, so TVs were equal - no incentives.

I managed a 1:1 draw, lost 2:1 on CAS, but had an APO and a 12th player so played a good portion of the second half up 1 player.

I had a little trouble wrapping my head around how to best use the team, while the other coach had a little bit of experience with his DEs. The only place that I really thought the zons suffered was in the entire team having 6 MA. I was able to live with all of them having AV 7. The skills were OK, and dodge did save them from a lot of Knock Downs, but dwarves would likely have just mopped the floor with them.

I'd be happy with +1 MA on the catchers and blitzers.

<srhug>

[plasmoid]

I'm playing a string of games with amazons.
And I've discussed them with an amazon veteran:

Amazons aren't overpowered.
They have one advantage. One. The easy access to blodge.
Everything else is just problems: They lack strength, they lack AG, they lack speed, they lack AV. They need to compensate for these lacks with a lot of different skills, meaning that if they go for their blodge advantage they can end up in real trouble.

It's hard to imagine any opponent where you'd say - now that's a good match-up for the zons.

That being said - I don't mind their cookie cutter stats. As long as it's the only team built that way, it makes them unique.

Cheers
Martin

[Rubric]

Another idea for the blitzers: Foul Appearance. Of course amazons aren't supposed to be "foul", so you can think of it as "Fair Appearance". They are so beautiful that sometimes another player just doesn't want to hit them. The blitzers would be the most beautiful members (why not?) of the tribe, so they could have this advantage.

If I remember the math correctly, I believe AV 7 + FA is slightly better than AV 8.

So, how about this for Amazon Blitzer: 6337, Dodge, Block, FA. 100k.

I've never played amazons, because they just look so dull. I played for a while on MBBL, and apparently nobody else plays them either (or else they just hide all the time, like those sissy elves).

I like the idea of a Jump Up team too, instead of dodge. I also liked the idea of Hail Mary Pass on the throwers, as suggested in the OP. I think teams should have some extra skill on somebody, other than the standard thrower/pass, catcher/catch, blitzer/block system.

Maybe this?

0-16 Lino 6337 Jump Up, G/ASP. 50k
0-2 Thrower 6337 Jump Up, Pass, Hail Mary. GP/AS. 80k.
0-2 Catcher 6337 Jump Up, Catch. GA/SP. 70k.
0-4 Blitzer 6337 Jump Up, Block, "Fair" Appearance. GS/AP. 100k.

With Jump Up, I don't think the catcher and blitzer need to have their MA increased. Plus, like plasmoid said, there is some distinction in being the only team with all the same stat lines.

[plasmoid]

Could work as a house rule.
Sounds balanced enough.

But in my experience, most league respond badly to skills proxying for something else. I mean, the roster is going to say "foul appearance", and you'll need to explain it every single time.

Cheers
Martin

[landrover]

I really don't like playing zons. Now that that's off my chest, I would like to change the roster and really don't want to see Hail Mary as a starting skill on a team that's designed to be very mobile.

With everyone having dodge, they just flood the backfield and 2+ the ball into a group, pick it up next turn and score.

Anyone else seeing the flaw here?

I'd lose the HMP and the alligator/jaguar names and all will be good.

[Jural]

Well, with a HMP, there is more than likely a turnover afterwards, and Amazons actually aren't that maneuverable, or quick. The dump and retrieve strategy seems to me like it would work better with a singla skill for Lizardmen, Wood Elves, humans (4 catchers), Skaven, especially Slann, and maybe even goblins.

It is also relatively easy for some teams to deny it, mainly dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Necros (2X Stand Firm + Good movement) Orcs (it's hard to get multiple holes into an orc backfield.)

I just don't see that tactic almost ever...

Maybe it's a bad starting skill, or a bad skill for Amazons as a general rule, but to be honest, I don't think it's a game breaker.

[Heff]

I love my amazon team but they lose and lose and lose. dodge is easy to counter. Elves are horrid because they are faster and more agile, dwarves are worse. throwers don't start with sure hands so you need re-rolls, Catchers are slow, blitzers are under armoured and linegirls are cannon fodder most of the time. Like teh Norse the whole team is a glass cannon only without the block access the cannon is not loaded. Otherwise they are great. So saying most of their opponents are bash all the way. (dwarves delves orcs and humans. Only the humans are ok and even they are horrid)

[Ravenal]

0-12 Line: 6 3 3 7 wrestle A/G(-10)SP
0 - 2 Thrower: 6 3 3 7 wrestle, accurate AP/G(-10)S
0 - 4 Catcher: 7 3 3 7 wrestle, dodge A/G(-10)PS
0 - 4 blitzers: 7 3 3 8 block, dodge AG/PS

wrestle AV7 makes them not suck as bad against dwarfs as a starter team as dodge AV7.

the G(-10) means they have to get a double to get a G skill, but it costs 10k less TV.

Opposed to the norse block-o-rama where block is designed to knock the opponent down and hurt him, wrestle takes him "gently" to the ground ... quite a save for their AV7 and a boost to their "low" MV.

The blitzers are an oddball ... they are the bite to the bone kick in the groin mean girls that know how the other guys play the game ... and play to match and exceed.

[worthy]

I've got an Amazon team recently and I was originally going to paint them like something out of Xena warrior princess, but the brown and gold idea looked dull on one model, so I instead decided to paint them with green leotards on and the head feathers to look like leaves and it works (although looks more elf like).

So far i've only played one game with them (I won against an Orc team) and my tip for anyone out there: GET ROXANNA DARKNAIL FOR YOUR AMAZON TEAM!! (a dark elf witch with leap and movement 8, lol!!).

Apart from the fun with Roxanna Darknail, I agree the Amazon team is pretty dull which is a shame as out of all the 7 teams I have these are the ones that everyone keeps saying I painted the best.

[Thadrin]

Can't remember what the Amazonian roster had.
Fend didn't work apparently.
Current roster is boring, and extremely reliant on that one skill to do anything. I swear 2rr2 comes up more often than it should.

So I pulled this off the top of my head.
Dodge replaced by Wrestle. Ag access all round. a bit more movement, a bit more armour, a bit more expensive.
0-16 Linewomen 6337 Wrestle GA/SP 50K
0-2 Throwers 6337 Wrestle, Sure hands, Pass GAP/S 70k
0-2 Catchers 7337 Wrestle, Catch GA/SP 80k
0-4 Blitzers 6338 Wrestle, Block, Dauntless GAS/P 100k
RR 60k

[besters]

I have to say I don't see what is wrong with the current roster, I agree with plasmoid, boring in itself, but it's unique, it's a challenge to play with and against and I think it falls within the expected win/loss parameters?

I think any improvements would make them too good and nerfs I have heard suggested would make them much worse.

I think some of the changes might be interesting, but why not try them under a different heading and see how they play in an experimental format, like the MBBL Bettonians for example.