Moaning about the Amazon Roster

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat May 15, 2004 4:11 pm

In my experience the Dwarf-Amazon match up is actually a fairly tough one...mostly because for some bizarre reason the Amazons only ever seem to need their dodge skill when the opponent blocking them/they are dodging from DOESN'T have tackle...

Add in those Blodgers, and a decent player can make them very effective, even against Dwarfs. Cheap rerolls can go a long way you know.

The Amazon roster could be a little more varied, but its certainly not broken as it is. I've got an Amazon team on the go (well, they're Nuns of Nuffle actually...) and they're good fun to play. Give me a challenging team over "2+, 3+, 2+ 2+, touchdown" Elves any day.

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Sun May 16, 2004 12:36 pm

Underdog wrote:Um... Did you mean for Zons to have a berzerker (not blitzer)?

Yes.
1. I don't like players starting with both block and dodge, so they have to have something other than block, and
2. Amazons appear to be about as wild as the norse, so a berserker fit their team, I think.

Underdog wrote:Also those rosters have just made the Zon's a sh*t load better than Norse. With Dodge on all AND AG access for all. I was suggesting either/or.

The primary reason anyone would want AG access is to get dodge, but since they already have dodge, the AG access isn't that powerful. Note that norse have all categories, which my amazons don't, and that's good to have.

Also note that I gave the norse a ST 3 MA 8 catcher, compared to that amazon catcher that only has ST 2.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sun May 16, 2004 1:16 pm

Amazon team is fine. They can perform very well at low TRs, but how does that make them any different from Orcs, Dwarfs, Humans etc? Unlike those teams, their effectiveness tends to drop off as TR rises.

Having lots of blodgers is all well and good, but with ST 3 and MV 6 all round every single team has the ability to either out-muscle or out-pace them. And AV 7 means if they go down, it's going to hurt...

Underdog · Post by **Underdog** » Sun May 16, 2004 3:36 pm

David Bergkvist wrote:
Underdog wrote:Um... Did you mean for Zons to have a berzerker (not blitzer)?
Yes.
1. I don't like players starting with both block and dodge, so they have to have something other than block, and
2. Amazons appear to be about as wild as the norse, so a berserker fit their team, I think.

Underdog wrote:Also those rosters have just made the Zon's a sh*t load better than Norse. With Dodge on all AND AG access for all. I was suggesting either/or.
The primary reason anyone would want AG access is to get dodge, but since they already have dodge, the AG access isn't that powerful. Note that norse have all categories, which my amazons don't, and that's good to have.

Also note that I gave the norse a ST 3 MA 8 catcher, compared to that amazon catcher that only has ST 2.

I did notice all those things and I did like your rosters a lot. I just had a few points to make about them. Sorry if that didnt come through.

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sun May 16, 2004 4:03 pm

to be honest i think amazon are a balanced side overall. They are pretty good fresh from the box but quickly lose any advantage at about 200tr. Norse are a good 100team but fall down very badly at 200 as well.
Mostly this is with av7 life can be hard long term. Once a league has lots of block/tackle then the amazon are a pretty ordinary side.

Munkey is right that they are bland in terms of character. Every player the same stat! Someone was hung over when they dreamt that bit up.

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sun May 16, 2004 4:35 pm

I don't know whether they are unbalanced. Boring, yes. Unbalanced, ain't too sure. The benefit Amazon linewomen will have over human linemen from their dodge will be cancelled out completely by the terrible stats of catchers compared to the standard human. The biggest problem I see is the bargain price of their re-rolls. But then again, they don't need those counters for dodging. Unless they play against dwarves of course.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:24 pm

They're certainly unbalanced at low levels. I'd like to see them changed to make them more competitive long term while making them less of a powerhouse early on.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun May 16, 2004 8:58 pm

Skummy wrote:They're certainly unbalanced at low levels. I'd like to see them changed to make them more competitive long term while making them less of a powerhouse early on.

If that were the case you'd expect them to do well at tournaments, but they generally don't. IIRC middle of the pack.

gollummen · Post by **gollummen** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:28 am

I dont see them as overpowered, the AV 7 simply make them too soft to do any real bashing.
They might have a small advantage at team creation, but they are not broken or overpowered IMHO.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:12 pm

ianwilliams wrote:If that were the case you'd expect them to do well at tournaments, but they generally don't. IIRC middle of the pack.

That's a fair point. I wonder how the short and long term development would shake out if the linewomen were changed to:

6 3 3 8 Gen, AG 50,000

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:34 pm

I think that the amazon, like the norse, is a strong starting team, but get into a lot of trouble in a longer league.
IMO, the running start of the amazons could be reduced by increasing the price of something on the roster, without messing with their stats.

Linechicks at 60K?
ReRolls at 40K?
IMO, their advantage comes from being underpriced.

Martin

Underdog · Post by **Underdog** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:36 pm

Skummy> AV8 and AG access is too good IMO. Much beter than a normal human. They will still get dodge pretty quick and then they will have High AV and low cost to boot. My concern with amazons is not that they are necicairly Going to dominate the league but that they seem to do better than ordinay humans and I personnaly feel thats wrong.

Anyway I got side tracked somehow gettign into a power level debate, when I started this tread all I really wanted to moan about was the blandness of the team roster but I got carried away!

.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon May 17, 2004 5:53 pm

I'm not so certain that they'd be unbalanced in that situation. Besides, a 3 AG line player with agility access hasn't ever really been done before. It would make for some really interesting tactics to offset the lack of strength later in the team's life cycle. Devleoping them with Sidestep or Diving Tackle would make for some interestingly different Amazon play.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Tue May 18, 2004 4:03 am

Skummy wrote:I'm not so certain that they'd be unbalanced in that situation. Besides, a 3 AG line player with agility access hasn't ever really been done before. It would make for some really interesting tactics to offset the lack of strength later in the team's life cycle. Devleoping them with Sidestep or Diving Tackle would make for some interestingly different Amazon play.

I second that.
Detached from the amazon-roster it might be interesting indeed to have an AG 3 team in which line(wo)men have access to AG-skills.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue May 18, 2004 3:35 pm

wasn't there that proposal of half-elves or something, with 3 AG and agility access ?