why dwarf runner?

[bouf]

They're just too easy in my opinion... A real no brainer team...

Dwarves are cool and they deserve a better roster. People who like playing Dwarves in other games (as I do) should feel as ripped off as I do with this uninspireing team list.

I mean whats the game plan here...

1. If there is a Amazon or Stunty team in the league, play them as much as possible and rack up easy SPPs.
2. If lineman get a skill, take Guard... after that Stand firm or Mighty blow
3. When you kick, beat up the other guy if you can catch him... If not, beat up anyone else.
4. When receiving, build a cage and walk slowly...
5. Snore...

Win almost every fight... Lose as many games as you win...

Of course their win % isn't redicilus... anyone who wants to have fun plays a real team. The handfull of Dwarf coaches out there who love Dwarves because they are a challenge are vastly outnumbered by the lazy poons who want an easy ride. I had hope that the Real Dwarves would want the same challenge with a better team but... Oh well, appears not.

And any journeyman with Block IS wrong... Tackle on a whole team is Proving to be broken. And a fighting team with RRs less than 60,000 (thats right, have a look there is no fighter with 50,000 RRs - nor should there be) is a type-o that somehow made it to print... that can be the only explenation. It was even worse in the days of the alchemist...

I've tried to suggest that changing Tackle to some thing interesting would be good, and changing Block to some thing challenging would be better... But Dwarf coaches - Good Ones - just won't see the light... Stubborn as a real Dwarf I guess.

The Rubbish Lazy Goofs are usually the most vocal in their defiance to change however, and they make it hard for those of us who really like BB for all the good reasons!

I guess I'll never convince anyone is my curse...

[Snew]

I guess I'll never convince anyone is my curse...

Wait! I'm convinced! Oh. you think like I do.. that wasn't too hard.

Keep saying what you just said. Eventually someone who counts will hear it.

I <3 bouf!

anyone who could say this

Dwarfs have hands down the worst positionals of any top-tier team in Blood Bowl.

Is simply looking at the players one at a time and on paper and should never be taken seriously no matter how many letters he strings together after making such a ridiculous allegation. By doing so he shows his profuond ingornace by ignoring the Chaos Dwarf team (or is he saying they're not top-tier?) and their positionals which are, OMG Dwarf Linemen. That would mean that Dwarf Linemen are better than their positionals. That would mean... oh I don't even know if I can say it. Maybe. maybe. all their players, every one are positionals. Would that make them broken? I can't even think about it.

[bouf]

Keep saying what you just said. Eventually someone who counts will hear it.

I <3 bouf!

Thanks for that but the Dwarf coaches who are worth their salt can't imagine life with "Actual" linemen... So they will cry poor and all the Poons will chime in and a Wall of Sweaty Nerd Noise will crush the BBRC.

I may not have the answer but at least I can see the problem...

Take Tackle away from Starting skills (or at least limit it to the Dwarf Blitzer) instead if trying to fix/change 4-5 other teams... Block should stay in the hands of positionals. Even more so with Journeymen rules...

Now Before I'm Crushed, I don't want to hear "We need tackle to beat XXX" because you can still take it! I don't want to hear "We need block because of YYY". Get it the hard way like everyone else!

"Dwarves are the skilled (rather than the strong) Fighting team..." Fair enough, I actually agree! I want to see Dwarf linemen with Skills and 'S' Access, just not Tackle or Block... I don't see why their slow, Armoured linemen need AG2??? Why not make 'em AG3?

I bet Norse woul be a different Challenge with Wrestle on their linemen rather than block. The net effect is the same... You won't get hurt when some one rolls double down, and you will bring down guys you do the same! But without Cheese!!! Mead and cheese don't mix!

Oh wait, I'm starting to rant like a lunitic!

Sorry about that!

[stashman]

Nerfing was missunderstod. The dwarf is not overpowered. Maybe rerolls would cost 50K but that won't make a big diffrence.

If dwarf linemen don't have block in the start up they will simply be a tough zombie, and we know how good thoose are getting skills.

Norse is not a problem with block, maybe the first season but not in my experience will the rule the entire league with dwarfs.

Playing against dwarfs needs cunning game tactics. Take one player and put him down, then foul. Keep away from the other MA4 players and just pick one dwarf at the time. When the dwarf coach stalls you just play evil. Psychology effect! Wait all 4 min every turn even if you just keep away. Force him to go mad and do the TD or maybe if you have taken out some players he starts hunting you and looses the TD.

The dwarfs will be a big problem if we take away Block and yes even Tackle becuse it take time to skill up a MA4 AG2 player.

I'm not a dwarf player in my heart, I love orcs!!!

When a dwarf team plays a chaos team at 180-200 TV the dwarf will get some beating by the claw+mighty blow combo. And every beastman can take Strength skills and with horns, frenzy and juggernaut players can put the stand firm guys aside. I don't think many players use the new skills so effectivly like wrestle and juggernaut.

In my skaven team I have 3 wrestle linerats and the hold the line hard. If its a both down result and a push back .... the opponent takes push back. I will add Fend and it will be hard to enter my half

Well back to topick. If we take away block from dwarf linemen, how much win % should the team have? Block is needed.

[Duke Jan]

Back to topic. The problem with RUNNERS is that they are fun BB players lost on a boring team. The runners offer the possibility of a passing game with dwarves. Perhaps dump-off or something. Together with cheap-ass re-rolls this should be viable tactic. However, the majority of coaches take the easy way out and turn the game into a bore. The problem with dwarves really is beards. At least the runners trim and comb theirs. It's just too much more rewarding to spend your re-rolls on the occasional double skulls than on attractive play.

[mattgslater]

I'm with those who say Dwarfs should be redesigned. I don't think they're broken, but they're not a brilliant example of good team design.

Snew, here's what I'm saying:

The Longbeard is a positional and should be a 0-4. As a 0-4 positional, he's an ok deal. As a 0-16 lino, he's really awesome.

The other Dwarf positionals are clearly inferior to their counterparts, and this seems to have been done deliberately. If you could replace your Human Thrower with a Dwarf Runner, you wouldn't. In fact, you'd say "Hell no!" to that deal every time (not so much with Orcs, but that seems to have been an intentional nerf too). If you could replace your Human or Orc Blitzer with a Dwarf Blitzer, you'd say the same thing. Slayers are hard to compare, but they don't scream "great deal" at anyone. As long as Dwarfs have linos who would be positionals on another team (and in fact ARE positionals on another team), that's the way it should be.

If Longbeards become positionals and Dwarfs get honest-to-God Linemen, then the other positionals (at least the Runners and Slayers) need to be beefed up.

If I could rewrite the Dwarf roster:

0-16 Clansdwarf/Linedwarf: 5/3/3/8 Thick Skull, G, 50k
0-4 Longbeard (as is, 70k)
0-2 Slayer (as is, 90k)
0-2 Runner: 6/3/3/8 Sure Feet, Sure Hands, Thick Skull, GP, 80k or 90k
0-2 Ironbreaker: 3/3/2/10 Block, Stand Firm, Thick Skull, GS, 80k
60k RRs

This way, they're still painfully slow, even if they're a little faster in practice. They have a little less Block, but as often as not the diff won't be major. The Blitzer is gone, but the AG3, MA5 lino replaces him as a ball carrier. Even with 3 MA8 positions yielding a minimum 5 players, the Ironbreaker keeps the AV high and makes the line stout. The Dwarf lino in this roster is not exactly a great deal, which I think the better positionals kind of make up for. If you don't think this makes the difference, knock RRs to 50k and/or use the lower price for Runners.

You could add 10k to the Linos, make them AV9 and knock 10k off Re-Rolls... that would make the Linos an ok deal. In that case, those Runners would have to be 90k.

[grampyseer]

Hi all. Sorry to jump in here like lame new-guy......

Do people find dwarfs THAT retarded?
We've only one dwarf team in our league (10 games thus far) and although they're bashy.....We just move away

Are teams really getting devastated by dwarves? (other then amazons)


As for the runners....I think they work well. I was just beaten by a dwarf team (snapping a 7 game streak with the skaven!!) where he was throwing long-bombs like some stinking elf.

The runners give the team some versatility that, as you've all touched on, is sorely needed.

[Patchwork]

Do people find dwarfs THAT retarded?
We've only one dwarf team in our league (10 games thus far) and although they're bashy.....We just move away

It's not that people find the dwarves win too much or devastate the other teams then the amazons, halfings and goblins (and the amazons need a redesign anyway). It's a dislike of the design of the dwarf roster that has some people wanting to redesign them.

[Zhadow]

In our current league, Dwarves are not one of the top teams. Going into our 3rd season, the four highest Team Value teams are Human, Orc, Skaven, Chaos, in that order. (I am the human player)

Dwarf teams are just really good early on. After everyone else starts getting skills thou, they get rapidly left behind. The Longbeards (Linemen) just take way to long to skill up in comparision to a agility team. Yes, you can take Guard followed by Mighty Blow on the linedwarves. How long does that normally take to get those 16 SPPs? From what I have seen in our normal 10 game season, maybe, one will have that, a few more may have one skill. With the blitzers, and runners with a few skills each as the main ball carriers.

When compared to how rapidly other teams earn SPPs. I believe dwarves are fine as is. There are plenty of counter skills in LRB5. Fend, Wrestle, just to name two.

[mattgslater]

It's definitely not a question of power. In the league I'm playing in, the Dwarfs hold a record... for being scored on more than any other team! However, a lot of people hate their construction, and I don't blame them. They can win, they can lose, but they're not all that much fun whatever the case.

[Duke Jan]

Do people find dwarfs THAT retarded?

Not retarded, just beardy.

[johhnytrash]

Why is is that dwarves has a big 'um that is not modulated by a d6 roll to be able to use. Shouldn't they roll a 1 to see if they are not having mechanical problems? Should a Death roller exert a tackle zone?

[PubBowler]

Excusing the threadromancy...

Yes, the Deathroller has great stats but it is the most expensive non star blood bowl player and has Secret Weapon meaning it only lasts one drive.

This is a real balancing factor.

So much so that many Dwarf coaches do not ever take the DR, preferring to induce Merc ones with the inducement money that they save from not rostering it.