Sandwich wrote:What really killed off passing was probably the simplification of 2nd edition to 3rd edition, when everything suddenly came under one Agility stat. 2nd edition had Throwing skill (TS) for throwing, and Cool (CL) for catching. If you wanted to "fix" the passing game, adding this back would allow players to be better at passing/catching as necessary, without giving them an unwanted boost for dodging. And also vice-versa, you could up the agility of a halfling or goblin without suddenly giving them an AG4 passing game. IIRC picking up the ball was an auto-success in 2nd edition so I don't know that would be work now, or if you'd use the CL skill.
I think the transition from 2nd to 3rd edition was rather well done. And the simplifying of the stats line quite good, and considering how well it works, possibly even brilliant (I mean that's not easily done).
Having more stats (like CL & TS) may allow more fine tuning, but it actually may be superfluous. As “AG3+Pass+Accurate+Strong Arm” already does that, i.e. that's TS:5 with re-roll (and without improving the players AG overall). So this specialising of players/AG already exists, it's just done via skills instead of stats.
Improving a Halfing's AG without improving its passing skill is a bit awkward, but technically done via Stunty.
And as the 2nd edition rules from 1988 had been mentioned a couple of times. These are most of its Throwing rules:
As the last action of a turn a player may throw the ball to a team-mate. (standard, veteran rules, star-player, dungeonbowl) (I believe the thrower was allowed to move (and possibly block?) during the turn, but I'm not sure?)
Or: A team may throw the ball at any point during its turn. But an intercepted or missed pass ends the turn immediately. And there is only one pass per turn allowed. (companion)
The ball may only be thrown at standing team-mates not at empty squares or prone players.
Roll 2D6 and subtract 1 for short, 2 for long and 3 for long bomb range: (standard rules)
2 or less: Intercepted (otherwise missed)
3-5: Missed (the ball scatters 1 square from the Receiver's square)
6-12+: Caught
OR:
The Thrower rolls 2D6, adds/subtracts the Throwers TS and the Receivers CL, subtracts 1 per enemy Tackle-Zone on the Thrower and Receiver and -1 for short, -2 for long and -3 for long bomb range. (veteran rules)
2 or less: Intercepted (otherwise missed)
3-5: Missed (quick/short the ball scatters 1 square in a D8 from the Receiver's square) (long the ball scatters 2 squares in a D8 from the Receiver's square) (bomb the ball scatters 3 squares in a D8 from the Receiver's square)
6-12+: Caught
This is the gist of it (there's more like weather and kicking, but it's mostly just special rules that don't change anything in the above).
Humans had TS:0 and CL:0. Their Throwers had TS:+1 and their Catchers CL:+1. (which was the standard)
Elves were TS:+1 and CL:+1. Their Throwers had TS:+2/CL:0 and their Catcher TS:0/CL:+2.
Other races: Dwarves TS: -1 CL: 0. Skaven TS: 0 CL: -1. Slann TS: -1 CL: 0. Halfling TS: -1 CL: -1. Goblin TS: 0 CL: -1. Snotling TS: NA CL: -1. Skeleton TS: -1 CL: -1. Minotaur TS: -1 CL: -1. Ogre TS: 0 CL: -1. Treeman TS: -1 CL: 0. Troll TS: -2 CL: -2. Positionals would adjust those stats (but not above +1).
Attributes could not be improved more than twice so +3 and +4 was the races respective maximum.
So Elves had a passing chance of 83% or better, and Human Teams (Thrower/Catcher combo) started at 58% (bomb), 72% (long), 83% (short), 92% (quick). And good Throwers would cancel interceptions.
Note that the end zones were: 2x15 squares. And I believe it was impossible to push players off pitch. And if, they probably ended up in the reserves (2nd edition had flying substitutes).
Interceptions (companion)
When a pass has been intercepted roll a D6:
1: Fumble, the ball scatters 1 square in a D8 direction from the Throwers square.
2: Missed, the ball scatters 3 (quick/short), 4 (long) or 5 (bomb) squares in a D8 direction from the Receivers square.
3-6: Intercepted, a quick and short as usual, a long pass can only be intercepted by players adjacent to the Thrower or within 2 squares of the Receiver, and a bomb pass can only be intercepted by players adjacent to the Thrower or within 3 squares of the Receiver.
Hand-off
Handing the ball to an adjacent player succeeds automatically. Like all pick up and catch attempts.
And then I listed how passing in BB (3rd edition+) scales, which may be interesting:
Human Thrower to Human Catcher.
Quick Pass:
AG3+Quick+Pass (89%) to AG3+Accurate Pass+Catch (89%):
79% (that's c.
a 2+ on a D6)
Human Thrower to Human Catcher.
Short Pass:
AG3+Pass (75%) to AG3+Accurate Pass+Catch (89%):
67% (that's c.
a 3+ on a D6)
Human Thrower to Human Catcher.
Long Pass:
AG3-Long+Pass (56%) to AG3+Accurate Pass+Catch (89%):
49% (that's c.
a 4+ on a D6)
Human Thrower to Human Catcher.
Long Bomb:
AG3-Bomb+Pass (31%) to AG3+Accurate Pass+Catch (89%):
27% (that's c.
a 5+ on a D6)
Elf Thrower to Elf Catcher.
Quick Pass:
AG4+Quick+Pass (97%) to AG4+Accurate Pass+Catch (97%):
95% (that's c.
a 2+ w. re-roll on a D6)
Elf Thrower to Elf Catcher.
Short Pass:
AG4+Pass (89%) to AG4+Accurate Pass+Catch (97%):
86% (that's c.
a 2+ on a D6)
Elf Thrower to Elf Catcher.
Long Pass:
AG4-Long+Pass (75%) to AG4+Accurate Pass+Catch (97%):
73% (that's c.
a 3+ on a D6)
Elf Thrower to Elf Catcher.
Long Bomb:
AG4-Bomb+Pass (56%) to AG4+Accurate Pass+Catch (97%):
54% (that's c.
a 4+ on a D6)
To me this looks rather sound (especially when looking at how the 'rough' D6 translations scale). And I can't really agree with adjusting that balance, other than adding improvements like Accurate and Strong Arm to slowly build the Thrower (& chances) up (either as improvements or by adding it to a roster player). That passes are not used or not attractive is not a problem of the scaling, imo. In fact, breaking that scaling could make matters worse. Giving a single team (like Human) a pass boost (Accurate/Strong Arm or Diving Catch) is another matter. (Like getting the Human Thrower on Short from 67% up to 79%). But overall the scaling above looks good. AG3 has a bit more need to improve, but I don't see having to pick up Accurate as a huge problem, and overall it seems a fair representation of the abilities AG3 and AG4 should have (especially considering that these numbers are not the ceiling, but the bottom on which players build).