Cybernetik Enhancements

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:56 pm

As they stand they are only interesting for coaches who want to beef up they're passing games or speed up a catcher. Getting -1St isn't to big a problem then. If you want to keep taking an enhancement attractive to teams playing a Str game, you must not have the -1Str penalty wavering above their heads. (and you might need an enhancement that is more attractive to these teams, but not everybody seems to agree on this)

R

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:14 pm

You're kidding, right? Giving Cyborg arms to oh, say an Orcish lineman suddenly turns him into a 6 3 3 9 Leap, Kick 110,000 player, with your immediate choice of Pass Block, Diving Catch or Tackle. I'd agree that you get the most use out of giving it to a high agility player, but the skill gains alone are worth the gamble on many teams.

I don't know if I like giving stunty players access to Mighty Blow, though.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:17 pm

Sure u meant "arms" in that post?

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:18 pm

you can get nasty and say both 1- ag and 1- strength. Or just 1- ag when yuo're purchasing an eye

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:30 pm

Sean: Sure u meant "arms" in that post?

Ah, no. Should read "legs."

I'll leave the mistake for posterity.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:54 pm

Redfang wrote:As they stand they are only interesting for coaches who want to beef up they're passing games or speed up a catcher. Getting -1St isn't to big a problem then. If you want to keep taking an enhancement attractive to teams playing a Str game, you must not have the -1Str penalty wavering above their heads. (and you might need an enhancement that is more attractive to these teams, but not everybody seems to agree on this)

R

Actually Cervidal has a point on me backing down to allow the -1 AG. ALL the players taking Bionic parts in the MBBL2 have been from Strength teams for the most part ....

The list:
Dryad took Bionic Eye
Dwarf Runner took Bionic Eye, arm, and legs
Chaos Marauder took Bionic Eye and arm
Treeman took Bionic Legs
Gutter Runner took Bionic Legs
Orc Blitzer took Bionic Legs
Human Lineman took Bionic Eye and arm
Fimm Warrior with Bionic Arm

Translated into positions: 3 Lineman, 1 Catcher, 1 Thrower, 2 Blitzers, 1 Big Guy (again this disputes the only passing or catching game argument).

Total after 2+ seasons: 4 Eyes, 4 Arms, 4 Legs ... which means that I'm VERY happy that they are balance in the bionic options.

Okay put into the closest LRB official or experimental teams for who took them:
4 Chaos
1 Dwarf
1 Orc
1 Chaos Pact
1 Halfling

As you can see ... 7 of the 8 players who have taken the bionic parts in 2 years of running the MBBL2 have been from strength teams. So pretty much only ST teams take bionic parts which definitely goes against your statement Redfang that they don't favor ST teams.

I guess what I should say is that the rules have worked very well for us for 2 years and the results don't show me any balance issues.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:59 pm

Skummy wrote:I don't know if I like giving stunty players access to Mighty Blow, though.

Have yet to have a Stunty take it ... the reasons appears to be that dumping that much money into a Stunty seems a poor investment because it doesn't increase his ST to allow him to really knock players down and have a chance to use Mighty Blow and he's still Stunty which means there is a very good chance of losing your invesment to one well placed block.

Galak

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:27 pm

Galak: I don't have a gameplay problem with giving Stunties MB. A Goblin with Mighty Blow is not going to be used to powergame. The fluff under MB pretty clearly wants to restrict it, and I like that.

Your list did make me think again about the +1 movement that the legs allow, though. It essentally negates one of the Treeman's big disadvantages. Maybe Big Guys should just be barred from having access to Cybernetic advancements as well as secret weapons?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:21 pm

Skummy wrote:Maybe Big Guys should just be barred from having access to Cybernetic advancements as well as secret weapons?

The Legs come with a Penalty roll of 8+ ... MOST players will be very careful about 70k to give the Legs to a Treeman and then risk 1/36 chance of death and a 10/36 chance of the Treeman becoming ST 5.

So you risk basically a 1 in 3 chance to of death or -1 ST to get a point of MA on your treeman who know has a massive carrying cost of 180k to your TR.

Because of the Weapon roll, he'll only play 2.4 drives on average or basically he's always going to miss a half. Either from Take Root or from the Bionic Legs ejection.

Now seriously ... did I miss where this was a wonderful idea. On my Halfling team there is no way at all that I'd get Bionic Legs to either of my Treemen. Maybe on a Wood Elf team ... but definitely not on a Halfling team.

Galak

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:23 am

Galak (and others)

You must have misunderstood what I meant; I didn't mean they were more or less useful for Str teams or Ag teams, what I meant is that they mostly favour the passing/catching GAME. Especially Str teams can use that (indeed).
The enhancements, however, don't help to improve blocking capability (much), that's the point I tried to make. (I'd just like to see an enhancement especially aimed at blocking, but I don't mind not getting one. I understand balance is an issue.)

I do agree with some of the above posters on not allowing cybernetics to Big Guys (and to stunties)

R

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:56 pm

Redfang wrote: The enhancements, however, don't help to improve blocking capability (much)

I really do not understand this statement at all. Mighty Blow is a very good Blocking ability. HECK, the BBRC test team in the MBBL pulled Mighty Blow off of the Mummies and replaced it with Foul Appearance because Mighty Blow was TOO GOOD of a blocking skill. I really just do not understand the opinion at all that getting Mighty Blow isn't worth much.
Claw is TOO good. If I have a Skaven or Chaos team I just wait for the first Storm Vermin/Lineman or Chaos Warrior/Beastman to roll doubles and take RSC and then I purchase them a Claw ... what a great way to murder other teams .... NOOOOO thank you.

I do agree with some of the above posters on not allowing cybernetics to Big Guys (and to stunties)

Seriously ... why. They cost 10k more per an enhancement than other players. The risk for ST is pretty big ... since I can only have 1 BG, do I really want to spend the money and have him end up ST 4. I already showed why giving Legs to Treeman isn't really a good tactical decision. With Stunties ... all the Eye does is cancel the Stunty range penalty (not a big improvement for the risk and weapon penalty roll). The Arm is virtually useless to the team, and finally the Legs. The legs have some value except for one problem ... they cost 70k and the player is still ST 2 with +1 to injury. A 100k Halfling or a 110k Goblin or 130k Skink is someone I'd target and foul ... just for fun ... he'll only be around for 2.4 drives, but he's a definite target.

Galak

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:00 pm

Have to admit it; you're right on those two.

Reason I don't consider the arm much help is that you pay for the (for a blocker) useless strong arm too, and that with Dwarfs as a principal team I'm blessed with access to Mighty Blow for most of my team already...

R