Continued Ogre Team Debate

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:15 pm

Given all the debate and seeming resolution to fixing the Khemri team (all AG 2),

I personally doubt the whole team will be left ag 2, but would not be surprised if it dint end up with only 2 guys ag 3. As for Ogres, i agree with ian, not to mention there are only 4 of the lil buggers.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:29 pm

Its the only part of the Khemri I cannot decide upon after seeing them in the MBBL.

Should the Mummy drop to 100k (these are FA Mummies now) to allow for easier reroll purchases which would help ball handling.

Or should we break the all AG 2 exception to allow AG 3 on Thro-Ra.

Or .. is the team fine with all AG 2 and 110k FA Mummies.

Galak

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:08 pm

sean newboy wrote:I personally doubt the whole team will be left ag 2, but would not be surprised if it dint end up with only 2 guys ag 3. As for Ogres, i agree with ian, not to mention there are only 4 of the lil buggers.

Don't be so doubtful. This really is the way the team is headed. I'd wager my High Elves on it.

If AG2 is good enough for a team with 4 S5 players, why isn't AG2 good enough for a team with 16 S5 players? Giving Ogres any kind of agility on their team, especially in the form of stunty agility, and they're an overwhelming team.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:33 pm

Cervidal wrote:why isn't AG2 good enough for a team with 16 S5 players? Giving Ogres any kind of agility on their team, especially in the form of stunty agility, and they're an overwhelming team.

I'll respectively disagree Bud until I see the team in action. Big Guy and the 3rd edition version of Really Stupid on the Ogres makes this a MUCH different team than the Khemri.

Since we've started playtesting, I'll let the results of the team tell me what its like at this point.

Galak

Joaquim · Post by **Joaquim** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:46 pm

I will wait for Galak playtesting.... for my league I'm thinking of only allowing new teams tested amd modified by his league...

But, as a Goblin coach, I really deslike seeing goblins in the Ogre team... it looks like a Goblin team with 8 Ogres allowed!!!

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:51 pm

Maybe snotlings should be subbed for the gobbos, it would make the team a little more pathetic but still give it access to TTM strategy. Of course we all know that whatever the final number, there will be gobbos on the official team as fanatic has already produced an ogre mini throwing a gobbo.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:01 am

Torg wrote: Of course we all know that whatever the final number, there will be gobbos on the official team as fanatic has already produced an ogre mini throwing a gobbo.

And that's the point really. Now Fanatic have made the model, the Orge team MUST have gobbo's in it, regardless of how potentially broken it might make it (and for the record, I don't mind seeing 0-4 gobbos in the team).

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:19 am

i know they've already made the figs and that there's no hope, but do we really HAVE to have an ogre team?

i feel like a salmon in spawning season...always against the current

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:44 am

wesleytj wrote:i know they've already made the figs and that there's no hope, but do we really HAVE to have an ogre team?

i feel like a salmon in spawning season...always against the current

Yup Wes ... but we need voices like yours and Zombie's that really just want BB to never change ... its gives the other side of the argument to consider.

Galak

(Sorry about that ... I normally don't try to lump anyone in the same category as Zombie)

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:40 am

I find something a little confusing. I was reading some 2ed material on ogre teams and according to the fluff (as most of us know), they were supposed to be a tough opponant but still quite bad as a team (not being able to find their way to the game, etc.). But looking at the team stats page in the 2ed handbook, it shows that the Olhiem Ogres finished 2nd in their division with a 9-6-1 record (W L T)

Even more incredible was that they finished with 32 points for and 24 points against.

It seems that even the 2ed ogre team didn't match the fluff!!

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 2:50 am

neoliminal wrote:I have a logistical question.

How do I tell the difference between a blocker and blitzer model?

Tell your bosses to stop making minis before they make rules.

Seriously though, to address the "Big Guy" on all Ogres issue. Is this just becasue they are "Big"? Or do you 2 actually have some evidence that the Blitzers shouldn't be allowed to use rerolls?

Would you be happier if we made called the trait "No Reroll"?

I'm not sure what the problem is. You say it's for consistency but you can't show me another team that isn't allowed to use it's own rerolls. You say that that they are "Big" but aren't Bull Centaurs and Mummies "Big"?
What is the problem? How about you go get some playtest data and comeback with some real problems?

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 7:06 am

Marcus wrote:I don't see your point at all. You're arguing on the basis of nomenclature, not rules - which doesn't seem like you.

That's because i find balance to be the most important thing in the game. But for ogre teams, balance isn't a big deal as long as you make sure that they suck. Since making them big guys can only make them worse, not better, i don't see a problem with it.

And no, i wouldn't mind if bull centaurs and mummies were declared big guys as well. Especially mummies.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:38 pm

Bull centaurs used to be BGs but that was changed, I expect because they only start with ST4 similar to BOBs.

As far as ogres go, why not test in your own league whatever version you would like to see and send the results to fanatic. I am sure the more data they have could only help make a better decision on the final roster (we can only hope

)

blkdymnd · Post by **blkdymnd** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 8:12 pm

Yup Wes ... but we need voices like yours and Zombie's that really just want BB to never change ... its gives the other side of the argument to consider.

I don't know why anyone would want to stagnate in the same unchanging game. I'm all for giving ogres a chance. Don't like gobbos on the team, but I'm willing to see ogres on the field. Change is your friend, embrace it.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:41 am

Zombie wrote:
Marcus wrote: Since making them big guys can only make them worse, not better, i don't see a problem with it.

There comes a point where the team is unplayable and, trust me, the ogre roster we have is dancing that line. The only thing I was sure of after testing the first TBB roster was that rerolls were needed. That roster didn't allow any players to reroll except for the goblins. That team may not have been "unplayable" but it was more than just a challenge. I lost to goblins for God's sake!