Why's everyone so down on fouling?

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:10 pm

Hi guys !

First of all, I will say that I like Fouling. Playing Chaos Dwarves, I like to clean the pitch. But I also like scoring : using my hobboes and my Bull Centaurs for offense is my main goal in the game, just to reassure Marcus

I have one player with Dirty Player on the team, and I would be willing to make it less effective, but you have to give me something in exchange, and I mean SPP's !!!

I like Manusate's idea to make DP players more sneaky. Maybe they could be sent off only on 1/6 chances when the referee has his eye on you and not seen at all in other occasions (but still drawing the attention to your side) ? That would add nice flavor to the skill.

Remco's remark is also great. I wouldn't mind having my sent off players penalizing my team of one less player on the pitch.

Vorner23 adds that it might be too easy with a +2. OK, transform this +2 on either armor or injury into a +1 to armor AND +1 to injury.

Zombie is right when he tells that major North American sports allow the coach to field players to replace the penalized ones. But don't forget that when you get too many personnal fouls in a Basketball match, the opposing team gets free throws; that hockey players sent off for intentionally hurting another get a suspension (not as harsh as it could, but this is another debate

; that baseball pitchers throwing intentionally to a batter get suspended and that baseball players charging the mound get the same. I don't know the NFL or the CFL rules enough to argue with you, but there must be some kind of system like those I just mentionned.

So, finally, I don't mind the Fouling to be well-structured by strict rules, but my final opinion is that if you can get penalized, you should get a reward (SPP) when it's "well" done. I would even accept 1 SPP for fouling casualties, you see how docile I can be !

Fred
Sorry for the long post...

horekim · Post by **horekim** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:12 pm

Zombie wrote:Some of you guys have been watching too much soccer lately

There is no such thing as too much soccer!

manusate · Post by **manusate** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:46 pm

There is no such thing as too much soccer!

True!

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:49 pm

Just to add my two pence worth

I think that the current balance struck with fouling in the LRB is close to perfect, our old league disbanded due to lack of interest after one or two coaches became deadly with dirty players, playing them usually resulted in at least one death and serious injury and too many teams were injured beyond a reasonable chance of recovering.

Also the players with the most SPPs were almost always Dirty Players.

Now however, we are finding that Dirty Players are increasingly becoming needed to combat players who have piling on, it is easy enough to break the armour but without Dirty Player all too easy to just get a stun result, in which case the risk far outweighs the reward.

It's too early on in our new league to judge if further tweaking is required but at the moment the situation certainly seems to have improved.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:15 am

Marcus wrote:The kind that bother me is the rather large minority of players who have no idea how to play the game and derive no other purpose other than to maim their opponent. I've met dozens upon dozens of them over the years. They are almost exclusively players with no talent, who never win, and who extract their only pride from rolling 10+ on injury dice.

Those coaches are never worth playing. Why? Because they're not playing Bloodbowl. They're playing their own perverse version of Whack-A-Mole. Casualties are part of the game, yes, but they are not all of the game. They only help in as far as they help you score more touchdowns. If your opponent won't or can't score touchdowns, then what's the point sitting down at the table with them? You're not going to get a game out of them.

As long as it's a challenge to stay alive long enough to beat them, there's a point to playing against them. And refusing to play against them just because they play that way is what i call afraid of getting hurt, and will get no sympathy from me.

I don't care if they play well or not, they play the game. And so should you.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:40 am

I have nothing against tactical fouling, I fully expect it, I rarely ever foul as I dont tend to need too, Its just players who build there whole game around fouling things just because they are there get on my nerves.
You all know the ones,Fouling lineman just because theyre on the floor...wtf.
I now have my own way to deal with this.
'Is this your dirty player.......sorry I trod on him'

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:53 am

Again, if you can't stand getting hurt, don't play the game.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:05 am

Zombie wrote:Again, if you can't stand getting hurt, don't play the game.

Er I dont actually get hurt.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:07 am

Fouling is part of the game, that's part of what makes it BB. If you don't like players with DP, then block and blitz him until he's out of the game (preferably dead).

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:19 am

Torg wrote:Fouling is part of the game, that's part of what makes it BB. If you don't like players with DP, then block and blitz him until he's out of the game (preferably dead).

Its those occasions when people have 7 or so, and their entire game is too foul

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:04 am

It's in those circumstances that we differentiate men from boys. Take it like a man.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:20 am

Zy-Nox wrote:Its those occasions when people have 7 or so, and their entire game is too foul

If someone has wasted that many dice rolls in DP, then I'd say that for the same TR you should have a considerable advantage as you have 6 or seven skills that can be used for something else.
Consider the case where the other has 7 human linemen with DP and the other has 7 with block. Which one would you like to be? I'd definitely be the one with lots of block.

Also, nowadays that DP is only +2 or +2 the skill is pretty fine, especially with IGMEOY. Come on, if you refuse to foul him back, he has a ½ chance of getting thrown out on every foul that he makes! The chance of getting a casualty is smaller, even with DP on the injury roll. And when our example teams above meet, and the DP team has started losing their DP's to being thrown out, the team with block has an even greater advantage.
Also, now that fouls don't give you SPP's (THE BEST IMPROVEMENT OVER 3rd ED, IMNSHO), his DP's won't get the development boost that they used to.

If he has a team built to maim you, avoid him, don't let him do it. There are ways that you can make it hard for him: don't let him block, position your players right, etc.
Having victoriously played with wood elves under 3rd ed, I really can't say I'm too afraid of the new re-e-ally sca-ary Mighty Blow - and there were coaches whose main aim was to maim in those times too. The traits and the change to Stand firm have helped too to make life easier for the agile teams. Only thing that's more powerful now than in 3rd ed is Piling On.