Terminology of spatial position

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:08 am

3 in the wide zones though Pippy?, unless by "open play" you mean after a kick off is resolved and a turn of movement has occurred...

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:19 am

Exactly, after the set up during a drive.

An e.g. showing defence and offence.

x=defence
y=offence
s=safety
r=runner
b=ball carrier

Code: Select all

- - - -|- - y - y - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - b - - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - y - y - -|- - y -
- y y -|- y - - y - -|- - - -
-----------------------------
- - X X|- X X X - X X|X X X - 
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- r - -|- - - S - - -|- - - -

A classical cage surrounds the ball carrier...

Ikterus · Post by **Ikterus** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 am

Pippy wrote:I have heard hardly any terms to describe positions on the set up alone. This is because, IMO, it's not that important a part of the game. BB is a flowing game, and what you do once you start to move your players is much more signficant.

I'm with you here.

To add some terms:

Zone Defense

Man-Man Defense

Rather self explanatory. Those terms are very relevant in BB and makes otu two ways to play defense.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:14 pm

I'm not saying initial setup terminology is all that terribly important. But it is fundamental to creating a deeper vocabulary for the whole game, as offense keys off of defense in BB and each turn keys off the last, with all of them colored by the initial setup. I totally see the difference in timing in games. Blood Bowl strangely fits both mentalities: the flow of the game feels a lot like Soccer, while the amount of action involved in a given play feels more American (a BB drive is more like 1 set of American downs than some good-sized share of 45 minutes of sporting time). It'll all come out: this is just the logical starting point.

Man coverage

Code: Select all

- - o -|- -
- - x -|- -

Zone coverage

Code: Select all

- - o -|- -
- - - -|- -
- x - -|x -

Ikterus · Post by **Ikterus** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:37 pm

mattgslater wrote:I'm not saying initial setup terminology is all that terribly important. But it is fundamental to creating a deeper vocabulary for the whole game, as offense keys off of defense in BB and each turn keys off the last, with all of them colored by the initial setup. I totally see the difference in timing in games. Blood Bowl strangely fits both mentalities: the flow of the game feels a lot like Soccer, while the amount of action involved in a given play feels more American (a BB drive is more like 1 set of American downs than some good-sized share of 45 minutes of sporting time). It'll all come out: this is just the logical starting point.

Man coverage
Code: Select all
- - o -|- -
- - x -|- -
Zone coverage
Code: Select all
- - o -|- -
- - - -|- -
- x - -|x -

I totally agree. And from that stand point I'm sure that we can reach a compromise in terminology that gives us the instrument we need to discuss tactics at deeper level.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:30 pm

Pippy wrote:Exactly, after the set up during a drive.

An e.g. showing defence and offence.

x=defence
y=offence
s=safety
r=runner
b=ball carrier
Code: Select all
- - - -|- - y - y - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - b - - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - y - y - -|- - y -
- y y -|- y - - y - -|- - - -
-----------------------------
- - X X|- X X X - X X|X X X - 
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- r - -|- - - S - - -|- - - -
A classical cage surrounds the ball carrier...

i'd say r should be reciever: tells you what he's there for. what about a name for the guys protecting the ball-carrier (i.e forming the cage). guards would suit, but could confuse with the skill.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:45 pm

How about "cagers" or "the players in the cage".

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:46 pm

trouble is using these "new terms" when hardly anyone has agreed to them yet will just make things worse

sticking it in the "new concepts" rather than the general, I hardly ever look in here and only happened by chance of having some time to kill at work, so hardly anyone i suspect has even seen this and the line up threads

weren't things fine before ppl starting coming on throwing around NFL positions anyway?

regarding my previous issue with labelling a positions as a safety when they can easily get stuck in a ruck and you use a player from the wide zone on the other side of the pitch to run back and act as a safety

wouldn't taking things from rugby and using numbers work better? 123 the line guys etc

so you have a set up and say "kicker would go in #10" or whatever numbers also work cross language

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:54 pm

the position things is really useful when describing set ups, which is the easiest bit to discuss, and you can't say a particular positition is a blitzer position cus some teams have no blitzers. i don't have a problem with gridiron positions generally as we already use so many of their terms: touchdown, endzone, line of scrimmige, sack, block, blitz. i like them as long they can clearly be relevant to blood bowl.

The use of the corner-term i think is wrong. it seems only relevant in terms of a corner-back nfl rather than anything to do with blood bowl. something suggesting the wide-placement of the player would be better and would also leave the term free to descibe the corners of the cage.

Fat_Emrys · Post by **Fat_Emrys** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:03 pm

stormmaster1 wrote:The use of the corner-term i think is wrong. it seems only relevant in terms of a corner-back nfl rather than anything to do with blood bowl. something suggesting the wide-placement of the player would be better and would also leave the term free to describe the corners of the cage.

I have to agree that corner makes more sense to me when referring to players making up a cage.

Would "Deep Flanker" (as "D" hasn't been used) suit for a player who sets up behind a Flanker?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:19 pm

Winger? Wingman? Or just Wing?

So, Winger, Flanker, Safety, Midfielder, End, Nose?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:28 pm

Here are some more:

A Safety is a player who plays inside behind the Midfielders. A Sweeper is a Safety whose job is to mark receivers or remain free to cope with breakaways. A Deep Safety cannot move more than one square across the halfway line without a GFI (Deep Safeties are usually Sweepers). A Strong Safety is a Safety placed so as to absorb a blitz or support the line from the backfield (as in an "inverted" Wing Forward defense). A Free Safety cannot or obviously should not be blitzed (multiple dodges or GFIs, absolutely no benefit to pushing, that sort of thing). A Free Midfielder is a player on the Midfielders' level who is not positioned for a blitz, for instance in the use of Guard. An Open Winger is the outermost player on an "open" side, which is a side that allows any gap in the Tackle Zone coverage before considering blitzes or line-blocks.

Pug · Post by **Pug** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:51 pm

Thouhgt I'd expand my 3d idea with this discussion.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:14 pm

So in the terms I have there, you have "open wingers" behind your "flankers" in a "303" line, with 3 "midfielders" (including a "centerfielder") and one "sweeper" who is a "free safety" and is also a "deep safety" unless his MA is 8 or more. Maybe "Deep Safety" needs the definition "at least 5 squares from the LOS" so it would clearly encompass any player used this way.

Would you really attack that D that way? Can you put some team races and player types in there so I get a better idea?

Pug · Post by **Pug** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Sorry....it was just a visual trial to see how the positional players would appear.