New Handicap Suggestion

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:06 pm

I think I'm the 3rd kind of coach...I like a fine mix of both.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:50 pm

We all do. I'll be the first to say that Blood Bowl wouldn't be what it is without the fluff or the weird dice results. But we all lean one way or the other.

To me, the handicap table should be there to provide a handicap (isn't that what a handicap table is supposed to do?) Providing the most accurate handicap possible should IMO be the first priority, but some people obviously don't see it this way.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:23 am

I must say I very much like where this is going...I like both basic schools of thought (Zombie's and Milo's), not sure which i'd pick if it were up to me one way or the other.

One thing I'd like to maybe add (this would work for either system I think) is for those that want it you could make a special play card worth, say, 50 points. Maybe as an optional rule.

However, I must say this thread was a lot funnier when everyone was abbreviated team rating difference...There were TRD's flying everywhere! Yes I know I'm childish.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:17 am

Well my first choice for a handicap table is +/- 1 reroll for each certain amount of difference in TR. Rerolls don't substitue for coaching ability and all the rerolls in the world won't win a game for a bad coach. He's likely to waste them as fast as he gets them.

But that's not going to happen. Failing that I think Milo has the next best solution. I like the idea of three seperate tables for the different TR differences.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:41 am

I've been anxiously waiting for what the bbrc is going to do about the handicaps, as the rumour has been that something will be done. I must admit I've been a bit worried even, but this is a system that I wholeheartedly support.
I have to agree that this should appeal to both sides of the randomness issue. Dice rolling is still involved, but there is a whole new level of strategy implemented in the way that you should choose to spend your points. Zombies' suggestion is not bad, but I still prefer some dice rolling to be involved. That should also appeal to a wider range of coaches to make this system acceptable.

I didn't look too carefully through the different results. I'll try to do that at some other time...

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:22 pm

Okay, now I've had a bit more time to look through the results carefully.

Bribe the Ref - I've already said what if I don't have 12 players.

Inspiration - I actually think this is a really good handicap result. Maybe move it up to Dirty Tricks.

Egghead Convention - really weak. How about a different letting you reroll the kickoff table once - even when your opponent is kicking? A chance to stop a Blitz or Perfect D could be very useful, but most of the time wont make a big difference.

That Babe's Got Talent - nice idea, but completely useless.

Bad Press - probably a little weak for the 2nd table. Maybe say they have a FF of 1 - which should guarantee winning all the KO results. Or drop it down to Good Karma

Smelling Salts - a little weak for 25 points. How about making it a magic sponge - i.e. extra apoth.

Grudge Match - how about never having the eye on you? Unlimited fouls is pretty useless if your men down and have the eye on you already. This also stops it being an absolute killer if you get the ref.

Bribe the Ref - quite weak for a 25 pointer.

Doom and Gloom - its a bit weak for a 50 point handicap. Especially when you think that Bad Habits is only 25pts and gets rid of D3 TRR.

Assassin - stunned players should be ineligable for the 1st drive.

I'd actually be quite tempted to make each of the tables have a "Choose any one result from this table or any lower table" entry and for Good Karma and Dirty Tricks roll on the next table up. Maybe a 64 & 65 for pick, and 66 for the next table. You could balance this by having 11 as roll on the table below.

When the tables are reasonably balanced being able to pick one means you don't get the huge advantage of being able to pick from any result on any table.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:49 pm

Just wanted to throw my support in for Milo's idea. I think a bit of randomness is needed.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 9:52 pm

Yup agree, this table sounds really good to me, and a little randomness isn t that bad

i just feel like MICKEY FINN isn t that good for the last table

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:40 pm

ianwilliams wrote:When the tables are reasonably balanced being able to pick one means you don't get the huge advantage of being able to pick from any result on any table.

If that was directed at my system, notice that i already said how to easily compensate for that. Just make them all cost more than they're really worth, so that even if you pick the best possible result for you, it's still not too strong.

Tysonium · Post by **Tysonium** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:56 am

I have to say that I definitely like this idea. I've perused both of the suggested lists, and have to say that it's more in the spirit of Blood Bowl to have the table be a random roll. However, I do like the idea of the coach having a few controlled options, so I'd like to make a suggestion:

In place of one roll, let the coach choose from the options below. Each one can only be chosen once, so extra points would have to be spent on random rolls as usual.

10 pts- Practice!: Due to the extra time spent practicing for this game, your team gains one additional reroll for the match.

25 pts- Underdog: The crowd appreciates your bravery in taking on a challenge. You gain +1 FF permanently at the end of this match, no matter what the result of the game is (do not roll for FF change during the Post-match sequence).

50 pts- Is There A Doctor In The House?: A healer in the crowd is a huge fan, and offers his services for the match. You have an extra Apothecary for this match (i.e., can heal two injured players, or reroll a failed Apothecary attempt). If the injured player has Regenerate, the healer allows for the reroll of a failed Regenerate roll. After the Healer has been used, he returns to the stands to watch the rest of the game, satisfied in a job well done.

Any thoughts?

Tysonium

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:17 am

Zombie wrote:If that was directed at my system

Not at all, the whole world does not revolve around you

. I was actually thinking of the current TR diff 100+ which let you choose the most useful result from a large selection.

Another thing that occurred to me was that the "prices" are too high. I'd probably go for 10-20-30 or 10-20-40. Under the current, IMO too weak system, at diff 51 you get 3 rolls. Normally that would be 1 useful one and 2 rubbish ones. Under the proposed system is giving one good, two average or 5 weak ones. Maybe this needs some testing to work out values.

Also this system lends itself to balancing for high TR. Diff 50 matters a lot more if you are TR 100, than TR 200. So how about, if your TR is over 200 (or some other number) each buy costs double. If your TR is over 300, each costs triple.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 1:01 pm

ianwilliams wrote:
Zombie wrote:If that was directed at my system
Not at all, the whole world does not revolve around you :wink: . I was actually thinking of the current TR diff 100+ which let you choose the most useful result from a large selection.

Sorry about that. I hadn't realized that in some way, Milo's proposal is more random than the current system. I thought it was less random all the way.

Well, that just made me change my mind. I'd rather keep the current system than have what Milo is proposing. I'm dropping any support i had for it.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:33 pm

ianwilliams:

Another thing that occurred to me was that the "prices" are too high. I'd probably go for 10-20-30 or 10-20-40. Under the current, IMO too weak system, at diff 51 you get 3 rolls. Normally that would be 1 useful one and 2 rubbish ones. Under the proposed system is giving one good, two average or 5 weak ones. Maybe this needs some testing to work out values.

That's a very good point. The break points do look a little off when looked at like this.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:49 pm

I think the values should be tested before any assumptions are made and the results should stay fairly close to what we know already. Test the concept with results you already know. Then it will be easier to bring it in line.

I'm thinking about starting a small PbeM league to test this and "Anthony's" salary cap system. Might have to wait about 4-6 weeks though! Summer break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

redlizard · Post by **redlizard** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 9:13 pm

Funny, I brought up a very similar suggestion a few weeks ago and only got minimal (and negative at that) response. The suggestion I listed broke the handicap up into 5 tables at 10/20/30/40/50 points of TRD. Simply roll 1d8 on the table you like. If you get an 8, you "graduate" to the next higher table.

Code: Select all

Tier 1 
1. That Babe's Got Talent 
2. Sponsorship Deal 
3. Team Anthem 
4. Bad Habits 
5. Extra Training 
6. Bad Press 
7. Scutt's Scroll of Weather Magic 

Tier 2 
1. Bribe the Ref (2) 
2. Palmed Coin 
3. News Feature 
4. Duh, Where Am I? 
5. I am the Greatest! 
6. Biased Referee 
7. Doom & Gloom 

Tier 3 
1. Under Scrutiny 
2. Grudge Match 
3. Mickey Finn 
4. Greased Shoes 
5. Bribe the Announcer 
6. Knuckledusters 
7. Intensive Training 

Tier 4 
1. Stiletto 
2. Bribe the Ref (1) 
3. Iron Man 
4. Buzzing 
5. Illegal Drugs 
6. Inspiration 
7. Smelling Salts 

Tier 5 
1. Appearance Fee 
2. In The Bag! 
3. Assassin 
4. It Wasn't Me! 
5. That Boy's Got Talent 
6. Morley's Revenge 
7. Running Late 
8. Virus