Page 1 of 2
Freebooted Secret Weapon Rules
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:40 am
by DanielLaw
The following is designed to introduce secret weapons to BB as freebooters in much the same way as star players (see below).
* Players can be freebooted for half the listed cost.
* Suggested Rule Changes:
1) Chainsaws start on 4+.
2) Teams can only freeboot one Secret Weapon player per game. Goblin and Dwarf teams are an exception to this rule.
* Notes:
- High Elves, Wood Elves and Pro Elves have no secret weapon players available.
- Bombardiers have Accurate.
- Blunderbuss players have Sure Hands.
- Goblin Secret Weapon players are slightly cheaper than the corresponding star players, because the stars don't have Stunty.
- Approximate costs of weaponry:
Blunderbuss = 20,000
Bombs = 30,000
Chainsaw = 40,000
Poisoned Dagger = 20,000
(deliberately reduced from other versions since the players can only be freebooted not bought)
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:41 am
by DanielLaw
Secret Weapon Players
Code: Select all
Name Team Cost MA ST AG AV
* Amazon Poisoned Dagger Assassin Amazon 70,000 6 3 3 7
Dodge Poisoned Dagger
* Beastman Chainsaw Loony Chaos, Nurgle's Rotters 100,000 6 3 3 8
Horns Chainsaw
* Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss Marksman Chaos Dwarf 100,000 4 3 2 9
Block, Tackle, Sure Hands, Thick Skull Blunderbuss
* Chaos Dwarf Bombardier Chaos Dwarf 120,000 4 3 2 9
Block, Tackle, Accurate, Thick Skull Bombs
* Dark Elf Poisoned Dagger Assassin Dark Elf 90,000 6 3 4 8
Poisoned Dagger
* Dwarf Bombardier Dwarf 120,000 4 3 2 9
Block, Tackle, Accurate, Thick Skull Bombs
* Dwarf Chainsaw Loony Dwarf 110,000 4 3 2 9
Block, Tackle, Thick Skull Chainsaw
* Dwarf Deathroller Dwarf 160,000 4 7 1 10
Mighty Blow, Multiple Block, Stand Firm Deathroller
* Goblin Ball and Chain Fanatic Orc, Goblin 50,000 4 2 3 7
Ball and Chain
* Goblin Bombardier Orc, Goblin 70,000 6 2 3 7
Dodge, Stunty, Accurate Bombs
* Goblin Chainsaw Loony Orc, Goblin 70,000 6 2 3 7
Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff Chainsaw
* Goblin Pogo Stick Sprinter Orc, Goblin 50,000 6 2 3 7
Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff Pogo Stick
* Halfling Pogo Stick Sprinter Halfing 40,000 5 2 3 6
Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff Pogo Stick
* Human Chainsaw Loony Human 90,000 6 3 3 8
Chainsaw
* Human Bombardier Human 100,000 6 3 3 8
Accurate Bombs
* Norse Chainsaw Loony Norse 90,000 6 3 3 7
Block Chainsaw
* Orc Chainsaw Loony Orc 90,000 5 3 3 9
Chainsaw
* Skaven Poisoned Dagger Assassin Skaven 70,000 7 3 3 7
Poisoned Dagger
* Skeleton Chainsaw Loony Khemri, Undead 70,000 5 3 2 7
Regenerate Chainsaw
* Skink Poisoned Dagger Assassin Lizardman 80,000 8 2 3 7
Dodge, Stunty Poisoned Dagger
* Zombie Chainsaw Loony Necromantic, Undead 70,000 4 3 2 8
Regenerate Chainsaw
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:42 am
by DanielLaw
Whilst I'd probably prefer to have Secret Weapon players permenantly available on teams, I haven't seen any rules that are balanced, simple and clear.
I'd rather have freebooted weapons than nothing at all, and I doubt this would create any balance problems.
gaijin
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:52 am
by duff
I like the idea. Would you like to extend the list of possible weapons?
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:38 am
by DoubleSkulls
Too expensive IMO. Do you want to see SWs as a frequent part of teams? The the cost per game needs to be 10-30k, otherwise no one will spend the money until they've nearly maxed out or are playing crucial games.
However, why not allow those players as permanents? No SPPs & skills - like Star Players. Then the numbers look fine.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:54 am
by duff
If they are allowed permanently, why not allow skills?
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:09 am
by DoubleSkulls
duff wrote:If they are allowed permanently, why not allow skills?
Because then you end up with Pro Chainsaws or whatever obscene combo you can think of.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:03 am
by Redfang
Maybe the rules should be changed such that a Pro Chainsaw isn't too bad
It isn't anyway; it might give a slightly better chance of starting the thing, but it won't effect using the chainsaw, since an armour or injury roll can never be rerolled (if I remember correctly)
Now, I don't want to re-start the SW player with weapon x and skills q-z is overpowered because discussion, so don't start with that, please.
Anyway, maybe the rules for SW should be changed such that it isn't too overpowered if these players gain skills
R
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:48 am
by Munkey
Redfang wrote:Anyway, maybe the rules for SW should be changed such that it isn't too overpowered if these players gain skills
R
That would be a better solution to my mind, freebooting is easy to balance but does ignore the team development aspect that is a big draw of the game in the first place.
There seems to be an innate assumption that the special weapon rules as written are sacred but in my mind they could bear a bit of tweaking as well as working out access to the weapons.
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:20 pm
by Blammaham
I like the idea of freebooting secret weapons because it will limit there use on 250+ tr teams, as those teams usualy have less money and really dont need a SW to even up the odds.S.
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:01 am
by DanielLaw
I do like the idea of allowing skill progression. However, I think it's something that's just too unpredictable, at this stage. There will always be people who strongly object that it might be widely unbalancing. (I'm not sure it would be).
I think the first step is to allow them to be freebooted. If they should be cheaper, then I'm all for it. Again, I didn't want to suggest anything that would disturb game balance.
Once the effect of widespread secret weapons is known, allowing them permanently can be considered. Don't forget that currently only 6 teams can field them (as Star Players) and they're pretty rare outside of Goblin teams.
duff wrote:Would you like to extend the list of possible weapons?
I didn't want to go too much into that at this stage. The only one I think could be included is "Dagger" (as Poisoned Dagger, but without the poison!) - which could be available for the remaining Elves + Halflings.
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:56 am
by slackman
honestly, i think the reason we still dont have official secret weapons (except the stars) is what we're running into here. fair and balanced rules for either freebooting or permanent players is considerably lacking. i like the idea of having permanent players, but this is going to add an unbalancing element to those teams that can get them, much like the rampant addition of big guys a few years ago. so what are we gonna do now? allow 4 blitzers for HE as well as the 4 catchers? and 4 wardancers for WE? that doesnt sound like a good idea to me.
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:14 pm
by Munkey
Or allow the Elves to have some secret weapons too, not a popular opinion I know but there's plenty of fluff to support the Elves using magic to cheat in games, no reason they couldn't have access to weapons based on this.
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:28 pm
by Pardus
Munkey wrote:Or allow the Elves to have some secret weapons too, not a popular opinion I know but there's plenty of fluff to support the Elves using magic to cheat in games, no reason they couldn't have access to weapons based on this.
sounds like the K.I.S.S. rule to me
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:36 pm
by Munkey
No need to make new SWs any more complex than the others whether they are based on magic or not, just don't see the need to exclude some teams from weapons and not others.
In the fluff even the goody-goody teams cheat (even halflings by standing on each others shoulders, which would make a great Star Player and fig BTW) so there's no good fluff reason to exclude them.
From a game point of view it must be easier to balance teams by adding at least some sort of option to all of them and willl certainly stop the otherwise excluded players from complaining.
Doesn't mean that Dwarfs and Gobbos can't have a better and more varied selection of weapons.