Talk Fantasy Football

I think it's too huge of an advantage for the kicking team to set up first. In the next rules set, I would like for players to alternate placing players on the pitch one at a time. I think this is fair and equitable. The receiving team gets to pound the kicking team first anyway. Why don't we make the line a little fairer?

datalorex wrote:I think it's too huge of an advantage for the kicking team to set up first.

I don't agree, but I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking this.

Everyone gets to kick & receive

The advantage of receiving is fairly strong - which means that BB is about good defence. Scoring on your offence is relatively easy - what is difficult is turning the opponent over and scoring when you kick.

This also helps the underdog - if you are losing you get to receive more and then it makes it easier to get back into the game. If it were more equitable it would mean dominating from a winning position was easier.

ianwilliams wrote:Everyone gets to kick & receive

The advantage of receiving is fairly strong - which means that BB is about good defence. Scoring on your offence is relatively easy - what is difficult is turning the opponent over and scoring when you kick.

This also helps the underdog - if you are losing you get to receive more and then it makes it easier to get back into the game. If it were more equitable it would mean dominating from a winning position was easier.

Fully agree Ian's thoughts

Galak

Father911 wrote:

datalorex wrote:I think it's too huge of an advantage for the kicking team to set up first.

I don't agree, but I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking this.

What I meant was it's too huge of an advantage for the RECEIVING team to have the kicking team set up first. The first round of a match between 2 newish teams could see many players put off the pitch before you even get to do anything. Things would be more balanced if the kicking team set up first or the two teams alternating placing players. Other games do that. I played Mechwarrior and the first player set up first. And in Star Wars, you roll to see who sets up first. It's just too big of an advantage to see your opponent set up and then set yours up to bash him.

datalorex wrote:

Father911 wrote:

datalorex wrote:I think it's too huge of an advantage for the kicking team to set up first.

I don't agree, but I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking this.

What I meant was it's too huge of an advantage for the RECEIVING team to have the kicking team set up first. The first round of a match between 2 newish teams could see many players put off the pitch before you even get to do anything. Things would be more balanced if the kicking team set up first or the two teams alternating placing players. Other games do that. I played Mechwarrior and the first player set up first. And in Star Wars, you roll to see who sets up first. It's just too big of an advantage to see your opponent set up and then set yours up to bash him.

Ian's answer pretty much sums it up. You will also get to receive a kick atleast once per game, if not more should you keep getting scored on. Blitz and Perfect Defence are also present in the kick-off table to help keep the offence "honest".

Try using a more conservative defensive formation and it should go a long way towards mitigating the first turn bash of your opponent. Basically, only 3 LOS (fodder) players are necessarily subject to a beating. That's not so bad and the rosters are reasonably balanced to reflect this "first strike" (i.e. low AV teams will always suffer on the kickoff, but winning the LOS isn't their playing strategy anyway). Defending is supposed to be hard and some teams are naturally poorer at this than others.

I disagree with the conventional wisdom here. My own experience is that in the four years that my league has been running for, I've never lost when I received first. I've lost 5 times when kicking first.

Then don't kick first! Simple!

MadLordAnarchy wrote:I disagree with the conventional wisdom here. My own experience is that in the four years that my league has been running for, I've never lost when I received first. I've lost 5 times when kicking first.

You've only lost five games in four years? Then I think your league either isn't very active, or your opponents aren't very good.

David Bergkvist wrote:

MadLordAnarchy wrote:I disagree with the conventional wisdom here. My own experience is that in the four years that my league has been running for, I've never lost when I received first. I've lost 5 times when kicking first.

You've only lost five games in four years? Then I think your league either isn't very active, or your opponents aren't very good.

Losses are hard to come by as we get a fair few draws.

My point being that the received wisdom is that there is no problem here yet my perception is that this is not correct as its a huge advantage to me to get to go first and set up second at the start of the game.

Warpstone wrote: Ian's answer pretty much sums it up. You will also get to receive a kick atleast once per game, if not more should you keep getting scored on. Blitz and Perfect Defence are also present in the kick-off table to help keep the offence "honest".

Of course you'll also get the kickoff at least once per game, but what good does it do you if you only have 7 or 8 players left? Your opponent got 11 players to start his offensive drive, and you only get 7 or 8 because he bashed you on the first turn. It's hard for new teams to overcome that.

If you're losing 3 or 4 players on the opening drive, you're either not coaching very well, or you've hit by some bad dice hoodoo.

Darkson wrote:If you're losing 3 or 4 players on the opening drive, you're either not coaching very well, or you've hit by some bad dice hoodoo.

Exactly right. Plus, any opponent who commits 10 players to the LOS in an effort to land the first turn deathblow will get badly burnt when he encounters an early turnover or unwelcome kick-off table result.

Basically, a coach who commits to killing on the first turn is either taking a risk himself or playing against a possible newbie coach who has placed more than the minimum number of defenders on the LOS. Neither scenario seems particularly unfair to me.

Its not just the first turn, its dictating the entire first drive.

MadLordAnarchy wrote:Its not just the first turn, its dictating the entire first drive.

But there again, I've probably lost as many players when I've had the first drive as when I've faced it. In my experience, it all averages out over time.