New skill - Perfect Spiral

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:34 pm

Admittedly this isnt a new idea, I found it in an old BBmag and wondered why it wasnt in LRB5.

Some throwers are noted for their uncanny ability to put the ball exactly where they want it, others are noted for throwing it huge distances or making it remarkably hard to intercept. However there is a certain type of thrower that every catcher likes, one who delivers the ball right into their hands as they run.

Perfect spiral - if a player with perfect spiral makes an accurate throw then the target player (if any) will recieve an additional +1 on the roll to catch.

Something which I see increasingly less of is an archetypal throwing play or even an archetypal thrower, especially on human, skaven, and other AG3 teams. This skill wouldnt be chosen before accurate and pass but it would certainly make me reconsider planning for a long term throwing strategy on humans.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:44 pm

I think that the possible change to Diving Catch, as being playtested by MBBL at the mo' (+1 to catch on accurate passes) trumps this idea imo-it makes a marginal skill (DC) worth taking, especially on AG3 teams and it means no more skills are added to the game.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:53 pm

Interesting. I do like that change (assuming its in addition to the normal effects of DC). However, tactically I would much prefer to have the skill on my thrower

Circular_Logic · Post by **Circular_Logic** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:33 am

I`d say orcs would benefit the most from implementing this skill over the DC-modification. They have a thrower position but they lack a dedicated catcher position, as goblins are usually just not worth fielding.
Perfect spiral lets each blitzer/lino catch on 2+ and even BoBs can get the ball on a 3+. Thats a huge improvement, whereas all other teams with a thrower position get a reciever, too.

This skill might make it worthwhile, to develop a throwing dwarven runner because suddenly there are so much more reciever, if longbeards/slayers can catch on 3+.

Oh.. would this skill also help interception attempts?

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:46 am

I believe the skill was cut for being percieved to be too good.
New DC will give the bonus to 1 reciever.
Perfect spiral gives it to all your recievers.

Cheers
Martin

Podfrey · Post by **Podfrey** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:24 pm

I for one really like the idea as there is currently too little throwing in BB. Well done Sensible Sod!

After hearing Plasmoids objections, perhaps change the skill to :

"If a player with the Perfect Spiral skill throws an accurate pass, then roll a D6. On the roll of 4 or more the catching player may count their AG as 1 better than normal, up to a maximum of 4"

This represents the ability to give all non-elf players a very good shout at catching a perfect pass, and even poor agility players should just be able to hold their arms out forwards and catch a spiral. It also stops any abuse of throwing to AG 4 players in multiple TZs and gaining any benefit to offset the opposition trying to hassle them into dropping the catch. The 4+ bit has been added to make it less reliable, but still worth it.

TBH I see the Diving Catch change as a fudged tack on to try and improve the skill JUST because it's been given to Slann Catchers. Without the Slann team getting the skill then DC would not have changed (IMO)

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:30 pm

>Without the Slann team getting the skill then DC would not have changed (IMO)

I utterly utterly disagree.
If anything, with slann perched at 50% wins, a buff to a starting skill on their roster could give rise to power-complaints.
AFAIK, that's not what the buff was about at all.

Cheers
Martin

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:47 pm

lucifer wrote:TBH I see the Diving Catch change as a fudged tack on to try and improve the skill JUST because it's been given to Slann Catchers. Without the Slann team getting the skill then DC would not have changed (IMO)

Geoff ... seriously .... left field. The skill change came about as a way to improve the skill in general. Doubleskulls voiced that he liked it because it mainly targeted the AG 3 Throwing game which was something he wanted to encourage.

The thread is still on TBB if you'd like to do the search to see it yourself.

Also ... WHY would someone as smart as you make such a silly comment. Slann Catchers are AG 4. They NORMALLY catch on a 2+. So if the only reason for it was to buff the Slann .. why would be pick a skill that doesn't effect them at all unless they are in a TZ or being effected by Disturbing Presense or Pouring Rain. Seems like a pretty stupid buff if that was its only purpose.

Galak

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:07 am

I can see that this isnt anything to do with the slann catcher. However I would really like to see this skill as a throwing skill precisely because it has so much utility. I wouldnt take this skill before accurate so it dosent exactly stink of being overpowered - just pretty useful on the right guy. Changing it to an effect on a 4+ works quite nicely because if there is both a dedicated thrower and catcher there will often be a re-roll going spare to use on this skill, however if the reciever dosent have catch then I cant see them re-rolling the Perfect Spiral roll.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:43 am

Perfect Spiral was brought up twice during the Vault process to create LRB 5.0 and defeated both times.

The common belief was that with one skill you give every player on your team a slightly lesser Catch skill ... which just seemed way too much bang for the buck.

Galak

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:29 am

What if it were an AG skill? the +1 doesn't help elves, and it would be a good doubles roll for an AG 3 thrower.

Oh, and it would really open up the playbooks for some of the AG 3 teams with no dedicated thrower.

Heck, my Chaos dwarves could build a passing game to my bull centaurs this way!

Hmm, I think I just explained why this is a bad idea

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:47 am

Jural wrote: Heck, my Chaos dwarves could build a passing game to my bull centaurs this way!

Hmm, I think I just explained why this is a bad idea

Hahahahahahaha

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:51 pm

Jural wrote:What if it were an AG skill? the +1 doesn't help elves, and it would be a good doubles roll for an AG 3 thrower.

Oh, and it would really open up the playbooks for some of the AG 3 teams with no dedicated thrower.

Heck, my Chaos dwarves could build a passing game to my bull centaurs this way!

Hmm, I think I just explained why this is a bad idea

That works the same if you get diving catch.... except that you have to make far more rolls if it were a passing skill...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:05 pm

SillySod wrote:
Jural wrote:What if it were an AG skill? the +1 doesn't help elves, and it would be a good doubles roll for an AG 3 thrower.

Oh, and it would really open up the playbooks for some of the AG 3 teams with no dedicated thrower.

Heck, my Chaos dwarves could build a passing game to my bull centaurs this way!

Hmm, I think I just explained why this is a bad idea
That works the same if you get diving catch.... except that you have to make far more rolls if it were a passing skill...

No its not the same. Perfect Spiral would give BOTH Bull Centaurs this ability. Diving Catch would need taken twice to get the same benefit.

Galak

Master Wang · Post by **Master Wang** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:40 pm

You guys need Plasmoid to find some stats about passing in LRB5. How much is it attempted? Is it a main strategy? etc and so on. If there's lots of negative feedback, maybe this should be added.

IMO the problem is that this will boost teams that don't really need help: orcs, dwarfs, etc with killer passing games to add to their pummelling power; whereas elves just get a little better at something that was already their bread and butter.

The only team I'd like to see this on is human. Just because I want to play them sometime soonish and enjoy passing, but not with AG3.