anti-cage team

[dodolulu]

after the arriving of the slanns as a anti-pass team, i thought about a anti-cage team. one whos a real threat to cages.
i havent come up with a fitting race yet.

so the team is built around the skill "combat master" similar to the one for the eversor assasin in 40k. the name is just a placeholder.

combat master (extraordinary) : when you block or someone attempts to block you, you get +2 str for every tz after the first one you are in.

this team should be very good in turmoils, but have average to low strength and average agility and are relatively harmless in 1v1 situations. so they are more finesse than bash.
other than that they have average armour and above average speed

0-16 lineman 7 3 3 8 - GA 60k

0-2 runner 7 2 3 8 sure hands, dodge, side step GAP 70k

0-4 blocker 6 3 3 9 combat master, multi block G 80k

0-2 blitzer 8 2 3 8 wrestle, combat master, leap GA 80k

maybe they are too weak in defence against other finesse teams and/or a lot of str4-guys and too strong in caging themselves. i dont know for sure. but id be glad to hear your opinions.

[gandresch]

Hi,

lol, what an idea. If that player get +2 per TZ additional to the one, you are in, you nearly always get a 2d. Then you have ma7 linos with AV8 and Blocker with av9. Every Human team would be greatful for such players! Sorry, but this team seems broken to me.

Slann aren't an anti-passing team. Slann are great for breaking up cages. Of course you don't always have a 2d, but you get the shot! Most teams don't have such a variety. So if you want a special cage breaking team, play Slann!

Greets,
gan

[Patchwork]

Slann aren't an anti-passing team. Slann are great for breaking up cages. Of course you don't always have a 2d, but you get the shot! Most teams don't have such a variety. So if you want a special cage breaking team, play Slann!

As Gan said, the Slann are pretty good at breaking up Cages. So are Vampires, hypno gaze opens up holes in one nicely and with 4 st a vamp can blitz in nicely... just make sure to put a thrall in the right place in case they blood lust

combat master (extraordinary) : when you block or someone attempts to block you, you get +2 str for every tz after the first one you are in.

Far to good a skill, take cages apart and make it impossible for any team without str 4 to get a two dice block on the majority of the rosters players.

[Duke Jan]

Slann aren't an anti-passing team. Slann are great for breaking up cages. Of course you don't always have a 2d, but you get the shot! Most teams don't have such a variety. So if you want a special cage breaking team, play Slann!

As Gan said, the Slann are pretty good at breaking up Cages. So are Vampires, hypno gaze opens up holes in one nicely and with 4 st a vamp can blitz in nicely... just make sure to put a thrall in the right place in case they blood lust

Have to agree with that the real anti passing team is Nurgle.

[dodolulu]

well you have 6 players with combat master, all of them have ag3, so you cant move that voluntarily around like elves and chosing where to block/blitz. you can most of the time mark them with one player of you. same for the linos, so they cant swarm around and giving assists like they want. none of them have easy access to guard. maybe take away A-access of the linos, so they dont all have dodge.
two of them have str2, so you get nearly always 2d-blocks against them with one player. sure you cant suck them into a turmoil.
so there stay 4 players, where its hard to get 2d blocks against.

as for the slann, i dont see them break "up" the cage. they break "in" and hope to knock the carrier down and get control of the ball but with ag3 thats risky in my opinion. and once they are in (without blodge from start on) they are in trouble. wheres the greater ability to threaten cages in comparison to woodelfs?

whereas the whole team has very long legs, leap and four have ag4. give one or two catch and pass block and he is a great interceptor.
so why is slann not an anti-pass-team?

[Patchwork]

so there stay 4 players, where its hard to get 2d blocks against.

For some reason I didn't see the Blitzers as having 2 st. Still, while they don't have easy access to Guard, it'll be the first skill taken on doubles because it would work so well with combat master.

as for the slann, i dont see them break "up" the cage. they break "in" and hope to knock the carrier down and get control of the ball but with ag3 thats risky in my opinion. and once they are in (without blodge from start on) they are in trouble. wheres the greater ability to threaten cages in comparison to woodelfs?

The center of the cage is most important part and the Slann lineman with wrestle and strip ball is something you'll worry about getting hit a lot less then a Wardancer. Ag 3 might be a risk but the reward if it works more then makes up for it.

whereas the whole team has very long legs, leap and four have ag4. give one or two catch and pass block and he is a great interceptor.
so why is slann not an anti-pass-team?

Nurgle and Slann are anti-pass but all the opposition have to do is take safe throw and Slann aren't nearly as anti-pass as they were before. Nurgles anti-pass is a little harder to work around.

[mattgslater]

VLL beats Safe Throw, no?

[Joemanji]

Slann already are the anti-cage team, it can be argued.

It can also be argued that Elves are, with any combination of Blodge/Side Step/Leap etc.

[Patchwork]

VLL beats Safe Throw, no?

Not my best day! I even play as Slann

tells you how often I come up against Safe Throw I suppose.

[Greyhound]

based on the responses above I would suggest a team using Hypnotic Gaze and Leap (VLL) as a good start for more cage breaking ability. That way you don't have to add a new skill

Maybe a team with these positional

0-2 6338 Leap, Very Long Leg
0-2 6247 Hypnotic Gaze

With these 4 guys in the team you should be able to sneak in any cage. But considering that cages are a very common thing, you don't want to load the rest of the team. A suggestion fluff wise is to use some chaotic demons (Slaanesh would bring these sort of skills) or maybe a Slann necromancer's team. Put a few zombies, 2 Slaans and some accolytes (maybe skink-like) with the Hypnogaze.

Don't underestimate Stunty to break cages. Something like this could be scary
6237 dodge, stunty, dauntless

[Kort]

0-16 lineman 7 3 3 8 - GA 60k

0-2 runner 7 2 3 8 sure hands, dodge, side step GAP 70k

0-4 blocker 6 3 3 9 combat master, multi block G 80k

0-2 blitzer 8 2 3 8 wrestle, combat master, leap GA 80k

The Lineman, the Runner and the Blitzer are all way too cheap. They should be at least 70k, 100k and 90k (+ value of Combat Master) respectively.

The Lineman makes a perfect grunt that can be turned into a natural Blodger and into an amazing Blitzer if he rolls any double at some point.
The Runner has slightly better stats than the Human Catcher, loses Catch (a mediocre skill at best for an AG3 player) and gains 2 great skills instead AND Pass access.
The Blitzer is also a super Catcher, his skills Wrestle + Leap are probably worth as much as Catch + Dodge, with Combat Master to boot.

[dodolulu]

im really hesitant to up the price of a blitzer-type player with str2, despite his combat mastery. and for a really good catcher he doesnt start with blodge, maybe catch and the support of his team, since they dont have a dedicated thrower.
wrestle on a catcher is wasted tv too.

the linemen have a calculated price of 70k, but i already changed my mind about A-access and i think a movement of 7 with agi3 isnt as valuable as with agi4. so a price discount of ~10k is fine for me, since they are the cannonfodder of the team.

the runner is underpriced, i valued str2 a bit too much. but since i think of them as a cheap to middle price team, i think losing dodge is better.

the blockers are the bread and butter of this team and with an admittedly very good skill combination they can be at 90k or even 100k, since their calculated price should be around 110k

so the changed roster would be:

0-16 lineman 7 3 3 8 - G 60k

0-2 runner 7 2 3 8 sure hands, side step GAP 70k

0-2 blitzer 8 2 3 8 wrestle, combat master, leap GA 80k

0-4 blocker 6 3 3 9 combat master, multi block G 100k

[plasmoid]

I dislike homemade skills. So do many coaches.
Especially one that looks so broken on paper.

Here's my tip to you: Find a friend who will play two test matches - one for each side. Be sure to play against a decent tier 1 team.
Then tell us how the games went.

Cheers
Martin

[Greyhound]

0-2 blitzer 8 2 3 8 wrestle, combat master, leap GA 80k

look at a 60k skink
Same stats but -1av. No wrestle and actually no access to general skill and already you can see why your 20k mark is a really cheap trade.
You don't start with dodge like the skink but you access it easily with 6spp.
Then you have leap and that awesome skill of combat master which any skink would take if it was available, even on a double.... And you don't have stunty.... Smells like WAY undercosted

[nazgob]

i would actually argue that without dodge/stunty, the comparison to the skink is way off.

and stunty is NOT a bad thing. anyone who can dodge into tacklezones is a threat, offesively and defensively.