Fouling and DP

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 12:34 am

Which do you prefer:

(Editted for missing poll option)

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:08 am

I think Dirty Player is fine the way it is so that's what I voted. Fouling is a bit subdued now so I'd hate to see the +3/+2 reduced.

I have been kicking around the idea of them being sent off only on a "6" but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Anyone care to change my mind?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:13 am

The one I'd like is for the fouling player to get SPP's for fouling but no bonuses, but I can't see it happening.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:14 am

Bugger, the idea in my above post I forgot to add.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:15 am

That's not bad. I can almost see them getting better by practicing their craft.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:54 am

I chose the final option. I think it would be a good idea if they got a +2 to the ref roll, could not get caught if the eye aint on them and only on 6's if it is.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:41 am

IMO, there should alway's be a risk of getting sent off, but yeah, a DP should only be sent of on a "6".

So how about this:-

Code: Select all

DIRTY PLAYER: This player is good at kicking people when they're down!  This players fouls using the normal fouling rules, but gains SPP's for any Casualities.  The player is good at concealing his actions from Officials, and is only sent of on a roll of a "6", even if the ref's eye is on his team.

Any good?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:48 am

Personally I think there should be points for fouling but if DP is used (or if the fouler even has it) he should be automatically sent off for causing a casualty.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:47 am

Under the current rules, fouls tend to be rare and as dangerous to the fouler as the victim. Because of the difficulty involved, it's my opinion that a fouler who causes a casualty should get the 2 SPPs.

Personally, I think the current fouling system stinks. Yes, 3rd edition fouling was overpowered. There were other ways to fix this, rather than adding IGMEOY. You could:

1) Get rid of assists altogether on fouling. All a player gets is the +1 armor for a foul action

OR

2) Tinker with or eliminate Dirty Player. The armor half of the skill is not what made fouling so brutal. It was the +2 to injury that made fouling so disgusting. Reduce or eliminate the injury half of the skill, or get rid of the skill entirely and there is no more fouling problem.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:39 pm

I like the fouling system as it currently is, although there are no Dirty Players in our league at the moment so perhaps i may change my opinion when there are

Allowing SPPs for fouls brings back the end of game (and to some extent end of turn for larger teams) fouls because at this point the fouler has nothing to lose and SPPs to gain. I would rather see fouls used tactically rather than as a cheap source of skills.

Having said that I do agree with Cervidals points:

1. Allowing assists means that it is easy for a team outnumbering their opponent already to push this advantage by 'guaranteeing' an armour break with enough assists.

2. It was the +2 to injury that caused the skill to be broken under the old system, especially without the casulty table. Remove this and much of the incentive to foul for the casulty will be gone leaving tactical fouling for stuns/ko's or a much more risky form of attrition fouling

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:17 pm

I think it was Pariah that suggested something like this many moons ago and I still really like the overall concept:

Get rid of IGEMOY.
Leave DP as it is.
Players are only ejected on Referee rolls of 6 always.
If a player causes a casualty while fouling, he gets 2 SPPs and is immediately ejected from the game (coach can still argue the call)

Pariah, I think called this the red flag effect where the result of the foul is so obvious the ref has to call it ... which makes perfect sense to me.

I'd still really love to see this system in action to see if it works.

Galak

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:50 pm

Regarding SPPs for fouling:

In the old system, I would 100% agree with no SPPs for fouling. It was too easy to get the casualty. In the new system, using IGMEOY, however, fouls have become pretty rare. Those that DO get thrown are much less likely to cause injury because of the +2 AV or +2 INJ rule.

Implimenting IGMEOY along with the change to Dirty Player reeked of overreaction to fouling. The problem with fouling to begin with was never fouling, itself. The real problem was how overpowering the Dirty Player skill was.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Jan 11, 2003 8:10 am

Voted "something else". We play with the current rules but replace IGMEOY with a sliding scale. It's about the same level of severity, but more gradual.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:05 pm

IMO, DP/fouling has by no means been neutered.

In my league, we still find DP to be problematic.
Try a few linemen with DP. Pick your fouls wisely, and you will see that thse players will contribute a big lot to your victory - more so than any other 1 skill lineman could possibly dream of.

(And we still feel that it is a very good skill even though we've lowered the injury roll to +1)

Martin

Styrofoam King · Post by **Styrofoam King** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:23 am

For those of you that DIDN'T like Dirty Player as is, may I pose this idea:

Only one assist may be given when fouling players (+2 max).
Dirty Players automatically count as having an assist, making it a +2 Armor Max.

And personally, if you accept IGMEOY (or this good Red Card idea), then your players should get SPP whether they have Dirty Player or not. even in the End Game fouling, only one person can foul each turn.

Talk Fantasy Football

Fouling and DP

Which "Dirty Player" do you prefer?

Fouling and DP

an idea