Making BB match the warhammer world

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:54 pm

Hi all,
it is an interest of mine to keep the blood bowl teams up to date with the evolution of the warhammer world, in much the same way as fanatic/BBRC has done recently.

However, I think that it is important not to remove any of the already existing teams, because each team has it's share of fans, that will be pretty bummed out by its sudden death.

I've got 3 suggestions for updated rosters, all of which involve minor changes to existing rosters, rather than removing old teams and inventing new ones. One of these ideas involve the Khemri/undead split, and while this is probably too late, the new rosters from JJ are still experimental, so there is still hope of saving the old undead team.

1. The Undead
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The problem with the undead roster is its mixing of mummies and gothic undead, so by transforming the old undead team into a pure necromantic team, the undead team can be saved, and a khemri team added independently of this.

The transformation is simple:
The mummy on the undead team is renamed to "flesh golem". Presto!
The flesh golem won't even resemble a Khemri mummy - because it looks a lot like the Khemri mummies will not have the same stats as the old mummy.

A Khemri team can then be added to the list of teams without conflicting.

2. Norse/Marauders
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The new chaos army has made it clear that the norsemen and the chaos marauders are in fact the same nation. Rather than trying to invent (and balance) a new marauder roster, and perhaps delete the old norse roster, I suggest this change:

All players on the norse team gains access to physical abilities.
As a small cost for this, their reroll price is raised to the "chaos" price of 70K.

3. Chaos/Beastmen
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The marauder team above hints at the other change to chaos. Marauders and beastmen just don't hang out like they used to, making the Chaos team an anachronism. However, rather than ditching the old chaos team, it can be made into a beastman team with very little effort.

The team already has beastmen (gor) and can ally with minotaurs.
All that needs to be done is to change the warriors into bestigors: give the "warrior" horns, and drop AV to 8 to pay for the skill.
It is tempting to also add ungor to the team, but that would be a pretty big change. Instead, the ungor must take on the role of coaching staff for their larger brethren.

And thats it!
Blood Bowl is brought up to date with the warhammer world, and no team is lost in the process.

Comments?
Martin

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:06 pm

I think the ideas are quite nice. But perhaps the beastmen team would play a bit too different from today's roster? OK for me, but then I don't play Chaos...

Micke

Amon242 · Post by **Amon242** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:42 pm

Those ideas look pretty good to me. In our small house league no one has played the undead in ages, and it would be nice to see someone fielding them again.

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:52 pm

well, if you look at the new necromantic roster, you will find few changes to the undead of old. the mummies HAVE been replaced by flesh golems, and the skeletons have gone away, allying themselves w/ the khemri. the only major difference is the addition of the werewolf, which still has yet to be determined acceptable stats. so really, they're changing the old undead into the team you want to see it turned into, with a werewolf added. personally, i agree w/ you, and would like to see as few changes as necessary. but if the werewolf goes away, there really is nothing different about the team. and the vampire team is a nice addition, since rookie vamps are no longer available.

slackman 42

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:17 am

Hi Slackman,
I know about the new necromantic team.
I'd just rather have the old undead team, than the new necromantic team - which hasn't even had sufficient playtest. We know that the old team was balanced

Also, you missed one thing:
On "my" undead team, the "flesh golem" has the stats of the old mummy.
On JJs necromantic team, the flesh golem is something completely different.

Martin

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:25 pm

I think a lot of us here would like to separate the two entirely. All the fiddling with the Undead teams is just one glaring example. That said, if it's inevitable, I agree with your suggestion on the classic Undead, i.e. Classic Mummies = Flesh Golems (are there Flesh Golems in WFB?). You forgot to mention, though, the removal of Skeletons. I'd support this just to further differentiate the two. I like and prefer the Skeletons over the Zombies but I don't think the team needs both.

If there's any chance, though, I'd like the classic team left alone.

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:23 am

Why do we care about the Warhammer world? Blood Bowl is a far superior game to Warhammer and it shouldn't have to confirm to the inferior game. Anyway, much of the Warhammer mythos is just plain crazy nonsense.... "Book of Grudges", my @r$e!

Martyn

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:28 pm

Yes, why do we have to match the Warhammer World with the Bloodbowl world .... as far as I know (And I play the little game since the first edition), the aera is a totally different one than the one of the WFB ...

So - why to bother at all to match them both ? Things can change over time ... (as I see they did, or are your Nightgoblins armed with chainsaws ?)

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:31 pm

Why match up the 2 worlds?

Well, personally I like the warhammer world (though I dont play WHFB).
I know that the worlds supposedly are not the same - on the other hand, Ulthuan, Skaven, Halflings and whatnot are defining features of the warhammer world.
But be that as it may.....

This argument carries more weight:
Because fanatic/BBRC are currently doing it. Just look what happened to the undead.
My point is simple - since we are obviously doing it, we could at least do it right

Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:34 pm

Snotsngrots asked: Are there any Flesh Golems in WFB?

IMO, not that I know of. I don't think that there are any of the classic Golems.
I've always considered the flesh golem an obvious evolution of the common zombie. I mean, if you can bring a corpse back to life, why not make your own super corpse by combining some interesting spare parts

Any necromancer with needle, thread and half a brain (to stick in the golem

) should be out there making one of these babies.

Martin

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:46 pm

plasmoid wrote:This argument carries more weight:
Because fanatic/BBRC are currently doing it. Just look what happened to the undead.
My point is simple - since we are obviously doing it, we could at least do it right

Or try to stop them doing it?

Look at all the comments people have made about the attempt to remove the old Undead team and replace it with two (or three if you count vampires) alternatives. As far as I can tell, people like the old one much more and would rather they didn't make such changes.

To continue the thread slightly, what do you like about the WH world? (Am I right in thinking this "Book of Grudges" thing that some of my friends go on about comes from that? It seems a bit stupid and I much prefer my dwarves to be Tolkien or D&D based.)

Martyn

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:24 pm

I would prefer not to see any changes to the teams but I could definately live with these changes.

Given that the undead change is bound to happen this seems the best solution to 'keep' the old team as well as having the new Khemri team.

I like the old style normal Norse as they are but if they have to be chaos maruders then so be it. One question spings to mind though, where are the chaos warriors, surely they should be in the same team as the marauders but this would change the Norse team quite a bit if they were added to it.

I agree with MickeX that the dynamic of the Chaos team might be changed the most with the drop in AV of the Chaos Warriors/Bestigor. I thought Warriors and Beastmen still allied in Warhammer, could this not be an allied team.

I agree that Blood Bowl does not need to follow WHFB to the letter but if thats not the way GW see it then I guess we'll have to do our best to make sure the changes are to our liking.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:09 am

Although I hate the BB<->WH connection, I must admit that Martin has a point: GW is probably going to demand that BB world must follow the WH world. Which is really sad.

But we must remember not to just copy things from WH army lists. We must think: what kind of a blood bowl team would they make? They won't just copy their best WH roster units and make them their "positions". There's no need for more human team lists, unless you can definitely show why for example brettonians would play blood bowl differently from imperial humans. Which is hard because they don't. Just remember that this is a game of fantasy football , not a game of knights on the blood bowl pitch.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:46 pm

Is Warhammer going to get Flesh Golems so they match the Blood Bowl world?

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:33 am

I agree with Mestari ...

Please let us keep this game a Fantasy FOOTBALL Game and not change it into a Warhammer Fantasy Battle game with balls

Although I have seen some rules for Brettonians, to display them as knights seem a bit ...errrm ... medivial to me for a football game. Maybe it's just me who's a bit influenced by the "modern-age Fantasy Football of the 2nd edition". But maybe the time flows backwards in the Bloodbowl world ...