Eurobowl 2nd proposed pairings rule

[daz]

The lower-ranked nation is Team A. The higher-ranked nation is Team B. Team A gains a slight advantage.

Match 1 is played between a random player on Team A and a random player on Team B.

Match 2 is the "bluff" round. Each captain secretly writes down one of his remaining players on a piece of paper (chosen, not random). The players identities are revealed simultaneously to complete the match-up.

For Match 3, the captain of Team A randomly selects one of his remaining players. The captain of Team B then randomly selects two of his remaining players. The captain of Team A then picks one of the two players from Team B to complete the match-up.

One player from Team B is now without an opponent. For Match 4, the captain of Team A randomly selects two further players. Team B's captain then picks one player from Team A to complete the match-up.

This process continues with each captain taking turns to choose each match-up. After Match 6, the captain of Team A is left to effectively pick Matches 7 and 8 from the remaining 4 players (2 from Team A, two from Team B).

PS: thanks to Pippy for translation.

[Topper]

Have been discussing your suggestion with the Danish team potentials - and the general thought was that it´s relatively complicated and will take quite some time.
They suggested the method used at Magic competitions.
Which is like this:
Coach A offers up a team to be challenged.
Coach B then challenges this team with two of his own teams
Coach A then chooses which of the two challenges to accept
Coach B then has to offer up the team that had its challenge refused to be challenged
Coach A then challenges this team with two of his own teams
Coach B then chooses which of the two challenges to accept
Coach A then has to offer up the team that had its challenge refused to be challenged
And so on

It´s fast and easy to understand.

[Thadrin]

Still like the "randomised" version of the system Topper mentioned that was discussed (and Pippy and I ran through twice) on the Enlish team board.

The proposal just seems far too clunky for me.

I'd lay money that the teams remaining will almost always include - barring them being drawn randomly at the start, and the nation is using them - Amazons and Lizardmen. To do otherwise is just asking for trouble.

[Podfrey]

Still like the "randomised" version of the system Topper mentioned...

For those not familiar, it's the same as Toppers (above) but instead of coaches choosing which two to put forwards, the two are selected randomly (roll, counters in a bag, etc). The team captains need to then balance choosing their matchups against what is left in the hat and the random part stops captains "hiding" mismatches (eg the old Dwarf vs Amazon problem)

[Thadrin]

Thanks Geoff. I should have been a bit clearer.

[Topper]

I realise that if you want randomness it´s not the best option - but on the other hand if one wants randomness why choose teams in the first place?
Then I´d by far prefer swissdraw.
I don´t have a solution though but I do feel that every system has its share of strenghts and weaknesses.

[daz]

I see that only few people are interested by these proposed rules. Nevertheless I think we could find a consensus with all the best points of each proposal.

In english system we have a semi random system easy to understand for most of them. The french system is a bit more difficult to understand and add a "bluff" game, and an advantage for lower nations.

I suggest you another mixed system:

Captain 1 gets the advantage (by being lower ranked than team 2 before round 2 to 6 or in final rankings 2009 before round 1)

match 1: bluff
Each captain write on a paper his chosen race and they reveal together.

match 2
Captain A puts forward a (random) team and captain B puts forward two (random) teams for captain A to choose a match-up from.

Match 3
Captain B with one team which he then choses a match-up between two further random teams from captain A's nation

Match 4
Captain A puts forward his remainig team team and captain B puts forward two (random) teams for captain A to choose a match-up from.

Match 5
Captain B with one team which he then choses a match-up between two further random teams from captain A's nation
Captain A keeps his remainig team for match7



match 6: Bluff game

match 7
Captains A give a match to his remainig team of match 5.

Match 8
Last team of Cap A and B play game 8

What do you think about it?

[Pipey]

This looks like a nice mix of different ideas.

Without practicing it, it seems as though it would work (and hopefully would be more acceptable to people vis a vis randomness/simplicity).

So we're talking two 'bluffs' (matches 1 and 6) and the rest as per the original French idea but teams put forward randomly? I think it would work.

[daz]

To make it easier to understand I think one bluff game is enough.
To introduce more suspens one random game is fine (for testing it during one tournament)

advantage system for lower ranked team (cap A)

match 1: random
match 2: bluff
match 3: 1/2 random Cap A choose
match 4: 1/2 random Cap B choose
match 5: 1/2 random Cap A choose
match 6: 1/2 random Cap B choose
match 7: 1/2 random Cap A choose
match 8: 2 remainig teams

Does it seem simple to you ?

[Podfrey]

(as a player) Podfrey likes

(whilst simultaneously appreciating that his liking or not has no bearing on the final decision)

[Thadrin]

I think I like... just so I'm clear: Two random teams are chosen. They play. Then the two captains do a "team of choice". Then the "random two, pick one" method kicks in for the rest of the matches.

I could like that. Needs a couple of dry runs to prove it, but it seems a fair compromise.

[Topper]

Proposal given on and waiting for their judgement...

[daz]

Needs a couple of dry runs to prove it, but it seems a fair compromise.

random match and bluff game were tested in a 5 team members tourney during 5 games in France (open de gaskogne)
semi random pairing was tested by you and Pipyy on english team forum.
It works well and give a real interest to pre match sequence:
Stategy, bluff, suspens and a main role to each captain. That improves relationships before the game between 2 teams too.

[Pipey]

(as a player) "Bum Monkey" likes

(whilst simultaneously appreciating that his liking or not has no bearing on the final decision)

I agree with Geoff, it looks really good to me personally.

For the captains to decide of course!

[haktar]

As far as i am concerned, i like the system used during eurobowl 2008 & 2009.